Deception Expert Phil Houston on Jodi Arias

He used to work for the CIA and he knows his stuff:

Settlement Conference News

In other news, there was no agreement reached today in the settlement conference. The parties will return to court November 1, 2013 for oral arguments relating to aspects of the expected retrial.

Jodi Arias is Trying to Fire Nurmi

Also being reported today is that Jodi Arias is trying to personally fire Kirk Nurmi. According to Michael Kiefer of The Arizona Republic, Jodi has written a 12-page letter to Judge Sherry Stevens complaining about Nurmi.

An excerpt:

“…Arias said… Kirk Nurmi, had not seen her since May 23, the day the jury reached an impasse on whether to sentence her to life or death. She claimed that she attempted to fire him in June as well, but Judge Sherry Stephens did not grant her request.

Arias writes that Nurmi has an “utter poverty of people skills,” and “has little to no tolerance for my emotional and psychological shortcomings.” She offered, as an example, her emotional reaction when the defense played in open court a lurid recording of a phone call between Arias and Alexander; Arias said she wanted the tape to be played in a closed courtroom only to the jury and not to the general public.”

You can read the letter here (thanks Elaine!)

127 thoughts on “Deception Expert Phil Houston on Jodi Arias

  1. Dr. R, I wonder if we could talk him into doing a study on Vilette to see if he thinks she lies. I would like to know if an expert would think she was lying when she says what Travis did to Arias was worse than what Arias did to Travis. That would be very interesting from an expert on an expert witness testimony, I think.

  2. This gentleman has Arias pegged, no doubt about it. Calculating, manipulative, deceptive – he sees it all.

    Arias trying to fire Nurmi – just another ploy on her part and something that I even commented on a long time ago in that she would use this tactic somewhere down the road. No comments really are necessary as it is another joke. In fact, Nurmi would probably welcome it.

  3. Arias has a lot of balls in the air. The Trial Divas have a few more excerpts of Arias’ journaling request to throw Nurmi under the bus, even a short mention of the ABA Death Penalty guidelines and failure, by Nurmi.

    Her copied drawings are for sale again, she’s received a tax exemption for donations toward her appeal, she’s pimping for money to file bankruptcy and she accuses the jail store of ex-stortion. Those snacks are adding up. Please send money.

    There are benefits to her by the defense filings, Arias is front and center to the public. An aphrodisiac. Some think she’s a “warrior.” Arias also continues her public displays as does her family, about her. But could this be construed as “cutting off ones nose to spite their face?” I think so, when it comes to the defense questioning whether Arias can get a fair trial in the sentencing phase with an impartial jury. She’s a self made woman. A PR – incess.

    And, would a change of venue make any difference? At the rate the defense is going with filings, Arias’ new motion and being engaged publicly through proxy…well there goes her nose. Now the question is whether those motions will be granted by the court. All of them.

    And it appears she may have a foreign visitor on the 27th of this month. This individual’s view is that Arias made a “mistake.” Not that she didn’t murder Travis Alexander and will face a final justice, just that she’d made a “mistake.” Que the “emotional and psychological shortcomings.” What happened to being a “victim of abuse?” Couldn’t anyone be found to support La Violette’s opinion?

    The Alexander’s are pleased about the “No Deal.” A nice photo was taken of them leaving the courthouse today. That can be seen on Justice4Travis FB page. Steven and Tanisha were smiling. I think Arias has provided the key to another Pandora box that she isn’t anticipating. Maybe that says something about her “utter poverty of people skills,” she’s miscalculated her abilities to go unnoticed for what she is.

    • Elaine, who and what is the foreigner you speak of in your posting who will come the 27th and will say that Arias made a mistake? I haven’t heard anything of this except in your posting. Explain, please. Also I wonder why anyone would get a tax exemption for giving money to her for appeals? That doesn’t seem right to me – that a person could donate money to a butcher and get a tax exemption. That is disgusting actually. Very disgusting. Also, I am not sure who you are referring to when you refer to the Trial Divas. Explain that too please! I don’t watch the HLN anymore because as far as I know, nobody on HLN is talking about the Arias case and nothing else is of interest to me that they are talking about. And I can’t waste my time watching HLN just in case they might say one little thing about this case. Actually, if and when the penalty trial does occur, I won’t be watching HLN anyway. During the trial, I did watch it on HLN and was upset all the time because the talking heads were continually making hideous statements about how incompetent Juan was and it made me almost sick. Guess what. It doesn’t look like Juan is incompetent. I thought he was awesome and I admire his passion for seeking the truth. But at the time, I was so afraid she would walk like the jury allowed Anthony to walk. I am so proud of the jury for finding Arias guilty I don’t have the words to express my gratitude. Anyway – please tell me what I have missed as far as a foreigner coming on the 27th. It is now the 29th. Did it happen? And what did happen?

      • nance – I too no longer watch HLN. They sensationalize every story. I am no fan of Nancy Grace, to say the least, as she is an arrogant, somewhat self-righteous person in her own right and I have yet to see her “make a difference” as she states in her show ads. JVM, although incredibly loud and opinionated in her own right does do good work for animal rights but I am tired of hearing about her sobriety (but she is proud of it as she should be) and she will “toe the line” with HLN and their mandates to keep her show. Dr. Drew – the only reason I used to watch him is because he had Mark Eiglarsh on, the only one who made any sense besides Joey Jackson. I watched one episode of After Dark and have not watched it since.
        So…having said this, should any of the Arias sentencing trial be televised, I will again turn to HLN for two reasons only – I can do other things while commercials are on and I will not live stream as it cuts into my usage of the internet and I won’t pay for watching Arias, no matter how interested as she is not worth it.

        • Nern, I much prefer to watch this trial on the youtube. I missed so much watching it on HLN because I was continually worrying because of the talking heads who in the long run apparently had no idea of what they said, including Mark Eiglarsh who complained almost every night if Juan was asking questions of a witness that anybody could have asked that witness one or two questions and got the effect and sat down and shut up. I really love Mark but I didn’t during the Arias trial. Not everybody gets it in one or two answers and that includes me. Actually I would stay mad at all the talkers depending on if they matched my beliefs! See? I am very immature. But in all seriousness, I have gotten much more out of watching the trial without anybody giving their opinions because I don’t get so nervous wondering if the talking head is correct which more times than not, they are not right and I have certainly learned more that I missed during the HLN showing. Also, I always enjoy your postings so much and wish I had as much knowledge as you show me. And please answer me this: do you know if there is anything on the calendar about any upcoming hearings or anything? And do you know anything about a foreigner on Oct. 27 that will have anything to do with this case as Elaine said? And speaking of Nancy Grace, there have been so many times I have turned her off because she is so rude to even her own people. She sometimes acts like they are stupid while they are trying to answer her questions. I can’t take it anymore, so I simply don’t watch HLN. I love Vinnie and Ryan and Joey Jackson, and now that I am thinking about it, it is because they treat others with respect. I also love Beth and Jean. They are all very professional and great commentators. And no doubt if this penalty phase ever does happen, I will watch HLN again because I am addicted to hearing anything even if it is wrong and I am a weak person. But please let me know if anything is in the works about a possible hearing or something.

          • nance -
            To begin with, I have no background in law, no insight into what is about to happen in the Arias case and only state what I feel about issues. Right or wrong, they are just my opinion after having watched this fiasco since January. I trust my intuition and with what I have observed, base my comments on this.

            The talking heads on HLN are just that – talking heads and getting paid to state an opinion to add to the sensationalism that HLN promotes. HLN, to me, is not a news program at all but rather a program to entertain and, I use the word again, sensationalize stories for the public. Some of the talking heads make sense occas. and that is why I like Mark and Joey.
            Jean has beefed up her appearance since the trial and continues to use drama in her reports – just by her words. She is what HLN wants in a reporter. Beth, on the other hand, to me, was far more professional and never speculated. I think she left HLN cause she didn’t fit the image that they are trying to portray in their reporters.
            I know nothing about what Elaine mentioned in her post nor do I know anything about any future hearings – except I believe Nov. 1st. Nothing is being televised at this time so I rely on Dr. K. and others to keep me up-to-date.
            I personally have not gone back and watched any of the trial on u tube or anywhere else. For me, what is done is done. Arias was convicted properly as she should have been and now we just wait until sentencing. I believe that Nurmi and Wilma did their jobs – to the best of their ability and having to work with such a difficult client. Some of their tactics were “below the belt” but they provided a defense that Arias has a lot of gall now disputing. She will throw anyone under the bus as she moves forward. I feel the Judge and the state also did their jobs and continue to do so. I believe that all of Arias’ words will come back to haunt her as the state will amass it all and use it to get their case across to any jury selected.
            Taking too long – yup, I agree but I will say once again, I am in no position to second guess the principles in this case and how they are handling their duties – with the EXCEPTION of Arias. There really isn’t any second guessing with her – EVERYTHING she says and does is predictable given her personality.
            I wish to see this over like everyone else AND I will continue to engage in conversation here until it is over.
            But…..I get heated and upset with people like ALV just like everyone else.

      • @Nance
        The individual, through tweets, noted the day he would be in Arizona. Arias confirms the date with him and another asks if she needs anything. His own tweets support a contention, his own it appears, that she made a mistake, but will have to pay for it. He, along with others, some who write blogs, are in support as well and have moved toward attacking the prosecution along with those in support of the death penalty.

        True, it doesn’t seem fair or right that one can obtain a tax exemption status, but it has been granted for the Appellate process. Arias’ family has announced that through their messages. How the monies through donations will be handled and by whom isn’t being advertised.

        The “Trial Divas” attend court actions on cases, blogging, twittering and provide live streaming of the trials. They also compile them for later viewing as did David Lohr from Huffington Post on the Arias case. I don’t own a television so I don’t watch HLN or other notorious pundits. But I can see excerpts from my laptop. I too appreciate Juan Martinez. I believe he knew exactly what Arias was from the onset, a prevaricator through and through. I support his approach with her, she doesn’t have the upper hand with him as she does with others.

        To my knowledge, as of this date, the 27th has not been eluded to in tweets or other methods as to what took place that day. But I suspect something will “leech” through, eventually. Yes, I do mean leech.

          • Penny – I too am totally confused by Elaine’s post. I do not understand any of the information given at all – with the exception on her comments on Marinez. He has pinpointed Arias from the get go and obviously was correct given the conviction he got.
            I do wonder what he and the state think of the constant delays that have been orchestrated by Arias and hope that he (the state) is just letting her “hang” herself with her own words. I find it interesting that absolutely not a word has been heard from Marinez (state).

          • Geez I’m glad I wasn’t the only one that didn’t understand her post. Have you heard anything that happened yesterday on the Arias case? I know it was behind closed doors but thats all. Let me know if you hear anything.

          • @Penny
            Nance asked a question about this, I don’t know his name, it’s not noted on his Twitter. The leg of his trip included Ariz. and Arias confirmed the date with him… the 27th. As for the tax exemption, it isn’t indicated who applied for it, but it has to do with donations for the appeals process for Arias. The amounts they receive will be tax exempt. There is information on the web for “Charitable” tax exemptions and tax information for “Contributors.”

  4. I know I’m Off Topic and that I am incorrigible that way, but I can’t help but comment on the Martin MacNeill trial. Today, I had the time to watch his daughter Rachael testify and I winced throughout the entire ordeal. I don’t know if it is the result of the trauma she incurred over the murder of her mother by what clearly seems to be her father, but that poor thing appears to be crazier than a rat in a coffee can. By the time the day was done, the defense clearly impeached her credibility. I’m not so sure putting her up there was a good idea. Her thought process was totally unhinged.

    While no surprise that she does have a history of mental illness, I was wondering how it is that the defense was able to acquire confidential doctor-patient information about her. Perhaps I shouldn’t wonder. After all, her old man knows plenty of string-pullers in the medical profession. But seriously, I don’t think the jury even needed any confirmation that she is unraveled after listening to her testimony.

    • Uppity, I think the fact that the defense brought up that Rachel MacNeill was diagnosed as Bi Polar was good because it helped the jurors see that she is mentally ill. Any juror who has been around someone who is suffering from Bi Polar Disorder will understand that their emotions are all over the map and they behave like children. Like children they are extremely honest.

      Anything Rachel testified to can be corroborated by other witnesses. At the preliminary hearing, Gypsy Willis, the mistress, testified that what Rachel said was true about Martin taking her to the temple and Gypsy walking by and pretending not to know Martin. Ada testified that she found her mother in a blue jogging suit in the tub and Rachel testified she found the suit bloody and wet in the garage. Alexis and other witnesses testified that Martin told them he found Michelle bent over the tub with her head immersed in water and her feet sticking out of the tub. Yet, the testimony by the neighbors and Ada that Michelle was lying in the tub face up fit the testimony by medical experts that Michelle had lividity on her back, buttocks and back of legs which suggests she had been lying on her back in the tub a long time.

      I think her testimony was important and powerful and the jurors like myself might feel protective towards Rachel and realize that her father was taking advantage of her mental illness and trying to fool her into believing he did not know Gypsy. They also may think the defense was picking on her by bringing up the mental illness.

      • Observer, I agree with your comments about Rachel. I found her testimony to be credible. I’m not sure she could fabricate testimony in this case, what you hear is what happened and I believe it because of all the other corroborating witness accounts. It was painful to see her on display to the world and I think she’s brave to carry through what she believes happened to her mother. She was after all daddy’s girl, why would she go against him for no reason.

        I had empathy for her, obviously the mental illness is not her fault and the defense attempted to take full advantage of her.

        • Tracy, you’re right. It was painful to see Rachel still reliving the events of her mother’s death and I think that will resonate with the jury. They will want to get justice for her because she is still devastated and rightly so.

          Because of her mental illness, Rachel will never forget or get over her mother’s death. When someone is mentally ill, they are dependent on their parents to take care of them.

          I just can’t imagine being mentally ill and losing my mother and only wanting comfort and to comfort my family and being forced to listen to the father I idolized all my life demonstrate how my mother died, and demand my mother’s body be cut up in an autopsy and share his fears that the police would think he murdered your mother and finding that he piled up your mother’s wet bloody clothes in the garage and wanted you to get rid of them. She washed them and saved them and then gave them to the police when they finally agreed to investigate the case as a murder.

          Then he takes advantage of her mental illness and tries to convince her if she prays in the temple, God will produce a nanny and it happens right afterwards when his mistress pretending to be a stranger shows up as they sit on a bench outside the temple. Rachel said she just lost her mother and her father was making her sit there and listen to this woman she’d seen at the funeral prattle on like she was her new best friend and she just wanted her to go away. Martin MacNeill was so selfish, he didn’t care about his children’s welfare at all, only about him and his mistress and their lust and need to be together.

          Like you, I empathize with Rachel and don’t believe she is capable of making this up. Plus, as you said the evidence corroborates her testimony.

          Even Martin MacNeill looked down when she testified. He was the one who caused his own daughter’s pain and he knows it.

        • I feel the defense crossed the line when Gave out information thet should have stayed with doctor. As far as Gypsy goes I’m sure she knew what was going to happen which would make her an accessory to a crime. She will never tell what she knows because of this.

    • I am also watching the MacNeil case. Rachael did seem to unraveled but she was under extreme stress. If she on right meds that will be able to control her bipolar. I do not understand how her medical care could have been brought in court. The other witness have all said she was laying in the tub not draped over as MacNeill said. I think this was a planned murder and yes he is guilty.

      • You’re welcome Dr. Randle. I’m including a link of a recent YouTube, published Oct.18th, given by LaViolette in Long Beach. I’m listening to it right now. I’m speechless…for now.

          • @Nanna
            You’re welcome. I’d only just seen it yesterday when someone else posted it on another site.

        • Elaine, I posted a link to this ALV video last weekend on another of Dr Randle’s articles and she said she would watch it. I posted some of my thoughts after watching a portion of it. It’s painful to watch, so I did fast forward through a lot of it. I would love to hear your thoughts after hearing the whole thing, if you get that far.

          • @Tracy
            Thanks for letting me know! I missed that. I’m assuming you posted it in the section where LaViolette is back in the news and I will read through that again.

            Agree. It was difficult to get through. The embellishments, superiority and misstatements. The direct and indirect insults, name dropping, which included judges, plus, using the Arias case to attack the media while speaking into the mic for the YouTube world wide web of social media. I found her recriminations foolish and childish against the court and its officers as well.

            I also found it disturbing that LaViolette used several examples of individual males from groups that she facilitates instead of using scenarios as a teaching method to the group of women at the End Abuse, Long Beach facility.
            http://www.endabuselb.org/

            While there are several examples of ridicule towards the male gender in her speech, it seems to me LaViolette revels in self-gratification at their expense. In this example beginning at approximately 1:20:30, LaViolette describes a situation with a client who is in a child custody battle and wants this client to ask her husband about what “step” he is in in his substance abuse program. The client does this in front of LaViolette when the husband “visits.” LaViolette’s lack of ethics as a purported professional astound me. I feel like she used her own client to also gratify herself.

            The video is worth hearing and I will listen to it again. I know, that probably seems like self-abuse, but I wasn’t the only one listening to LaViolette during the trial of Jodi Arias. Victims of violence, male and female, spoke loud and clear against LaViolette through every manner available to them.

            The Corporate Alliance To End Partner Violence, http://www.caepv.org/about/members.php which LaViolette claims to have helped found, asked her to resign as an Advisory Board Member. If you look up the Board of Directors and Advisory Board members, I’m thinking they listened to the outcry of true victims who felt betrayed when Alyce LaViolette supported Arias as a victim and Travis as the abuser.

            LaViolette aptly describes herself in her opening on this video as: “The Poster Girl of Misrepresentation.” As a joke. And that can’t be closer to the truth. She’s as misunderstood as Arias. And that’s no joke.

            Alyce LaViolette no longer has strong financial supporters through the Corporate Alliance and I’m not surprised that she hasn’t asked the Directors if they even know why she was asked to resign. The list of members is phenomenal. http://www.caepv.org/about/members.php

        • Elaine and Dr. R. What can I say. I WAS speechless for a few hours but now I can speak again. It is SO interesting that VILEtte was abused by Juan. Also she is really pushing that this was NOT a premeditated murder. Is she is an expert on premeditation? How would this creepy liar explain the stolen gun, the gas cans, the phone turned off while in Az, the trip to LA, which is so close to Mesa, yet wasn’t able to connect to Daryl’s sister there, duh, etc., I would love to hear her expert testimony on those issues. Also, those Long Beach women are creeps as well. Creepy, creepy, creepy. The pleasure they got from VILEtte’s lies are creepy. One of her lies is that Arias was not in a relationship with Daryl when she met Travis. Wrong. The biggest lie is that Juan abused her, VILEtte. She blatantly says she and other so called experts consider Juan an abuser. I saw it so differently. I saw where she tried so hard to abuse him. And the judge allowed it! Other lies are that Arias has no history of stalking or lying. Uppity apparently believes that VILEtte believes Arias. No. VILEtte helped Arias to come up with the theory that Arias was abused. That is why she came on board, to really get those lies down pat. Oh, lest I forget, also that Travis abused all those other women she mentioned in her testimony WITHOUT even questioning them. Hmmm. VILEtte is and was a liar. And gets off on being a liar. And makes jokes at the expense of a butchered young man and his family of origin (think how the brothers and sisters of Travis would feel if they watched this creepy woman’s video and let’s not forget she suggests that during the trial, it is true that Travis is a pedophile because her poor little domestically abused Arias said so!). She is still so disgusting. I do agree with her on this one thing – that she says her new name is a piece of s..t . I have to concur. I wouldn’t have said that, but if she insists, what can I say, I will agree with that one thing she says in this video. .I hope, hope, hope that Dr. R really does post a comment on this video. And Elaine, need I say – GREAT POSTING! It was hard to watch that old creep, but I got through it. For shame on all those women. They live in a world of lies if they admire this liar and I am sure they do by their clapping and shrieking laughter. For shame on all of them. Who are they anyway? Students? Abused women? I couldn’t figure that out. They cannot be intelligent people if they think this liar is worthy of being heard. This video makes me rethink that people should go to these types of people if they need help. This bizarre creepy woman is a liar. And she also talked about other criminal murder cases she has testified in. Another lie. She was proven to be a liar about that in court. Whoever got her to be a speaker in this video is also pathetic. For shame. VILEtte is so arrogant. That tells me all I need to know. She, like Arias, apparently lives on the lies. I repeat : for shame on all these weird women. This video and talk was purely to try to make Juan, as a prosecutor and finder of truth, a laughing stock. For shame. That’s all I can say. I am disgusted by her and her sheeple.

          • I couldn’t listen to LaViolette very long because she is such a liar and spin doctor. What domestic violence expert makes jokes and blasts a prosecutor of a murderer and TV talk show hosts for doing their jobs when they are suppose to be speaking about abuse? You’d think she was doing stand up comedy. There is nothing funny about domestic violence. And those idiots who were laughing at her were probably plants.

            LaViolette said she has been an expert witness for 29 years and she never takes a case that she doesn’t believe in and turned down two cases since the Arias trial. Bald faced lie. She has only testified twice before Arias. No prosecutor or defense attorney in his right mind would hire her after she made a fool of herself on national TV disrespecting the prosecutor and making a mockery of the justice system. She also bragged that several domestic violence experts turned down the Arias case and she was the only one who was willing to take it. Doesn’t that tell her something?

            She says everybody agreed with what she said on the stand, everybody has “her back,” believes that Juan Martinez is an abuser and she’s mobbed at airports by supporters and made many friends since the Jodi Arias trial. More bald faced lies.

            Isn’t she the same woman who went on national TV whining about how she was a victim, vilified by the public and refuses to testify in Arias’s re-sentencing because of death threats. Isn’t she the same woman who cried because she fears for her life since a lynch mob is after her and the whole country hates her since she spoke in defense of Arias whom she believes was defending herself from the worst type of abuser? If she believes so much in Jodi Arias’s innocence and everybody agrees with her and “has her back” why isn’t she volunteering to save the poor abuse victim’s life?

            She won’t testify because she is too chicken to face Martinez again. It isn’t because he is an abuser. It is because he is a prosecutor and it is his job to impeach witnesses who lie and don’t make sense. She makes jokes about him because it galls her that he exposed her for the fraud and liar that she is and 99 per cent of the country cheered him on.

          • PS: Laviolette testified for the $50,000 period. This speech – if you call it that – proves she is totally unprofessional and childish. She is furious that real abuse victims, professional therapists and the public in general did not swallow her BS and do not agree with her preposterous theories about domestic violence. In my opinion, Alyce LaViolette needs psychiatric help and is incapable of helping anyone else.

          • nance – Shameful – for sure. I do not understand how people can present themselves in such a way.
            Yes, most of what she had to say was from her arrogant, self-importance point of view. She cannot get over that she was “called out” for her lack of ethics and challenged in her perceived field of expertise by the prosecutor. In trashing Martinez and anyone else who was not agreeing with her stance regarding Arias, she feels somewhat vindicated in her mind. Now, she goes on the road to convince others.
            Arrogant, self-centered people do not have the capacity to see what others see in them. They never give in and go on the defensive as they know no other way. They “pound away” at others to feel continued importance in their own minds.This at least, has been my experience.
            People with any intellect, compassion and empathy see that ALV is someone who talks to hear herself speak. People KNOW and I will say again that those who go to hear her speak now, after the trial, are going for the sole purpose of curiosity NOT because they buy into what she is saying. If she believed in herself and her expertise, she would not need to spend almost an entire seminar justifying herself and bashing others. Speaks volumes to me.

          • @Nance

            This is the feeling I have when listening to LaViolette on the video: ‘where was I when that happened?’ And then I’m hurled through a tunnel and at the end, there’s LaViolette, smiling…with pinking shears teeth.

          • Observer & Nern, Oh yes! As I watched this Laviolette video, I thought many people must go just to see her. The “celebrity” you know. A “celebrity” like Arias. She made “celebrity” name for herself due to being vile, repulsive, a liar & ……. I knew I would NEVER go see her. I would truly get physically sick. And yes, she was so full of herself. Making fun of the judge, Martinez….she even managed to get Dec Flores! Then slandering the whole HLN staff. Now she has sooooo much support…is gaining BFF at the airport & conducting “therapy sessions” at the gate. Soooooo many agree with her, support her. I think she phrased it, “Have my back.” How many times did she repeat “BFF” & “…her back?” !!!! I got cringed. Her presentation in this video was a mix of a comedy show, revival meeting, selling snake oil.

        • I too thank you for this video of Laviolette. Reminds me of Jodi Arias’ 12 page letter. I can only watch it in bits. It can be very enraging. But NOT if one keeps in mind this is one sick, nasty, sociopath, evil woman. She, like Arias, is trying to do a massive spin on everything. The media, general public, the world is against her, therefore the world is *sick & *abusive. (Defense Mechanism: *Projection of her own traits!) She can speak as much as she wants. By doing so she digs her hole deeper & deeper. This was one woman’s place where she was asked to speak. ONE! And I believe she is very closely *affiliated with this Long Beach woman’s center, for decades. This speech is not different than her venomous lies on the stand. Alyce is trying to reinvent herself, but she is now forever h-i-s-t-o-r-y.

          • Elaine, I apologize I didn’t give a link to my previous comment. And no, I didn’t post it in Alyce back in the news article, I actually posted it in Jodi’s New Blog Post article. There had been some ongoing conversation on that article. I realized afterward I should have posted it in the older article. In any case, I wanted to bring it to Dr R’s attention in the hopes she would watch it and give us some analysis. No worries. I’m glad you brought it up so more people could see it.

            As a DV victim myself, I was infuriated by her testimony. Her follow up self-serving television interview and now this workshop has my blood boiling. I remember the help I received as a DV victim back in the early 80′s as being professional. I called a hotline and was ushered through a system that was compassionate, professional and highly confidential. It was the lowest point in my life and I was so embarrassed. These people helped me regain my confidence and begin a new life, without them I know it would not have ended well.

            It’s very apparent ALV lacks ethics and I don’t consider her to be professional whatsoever. She embellishes her relevance. It’s astounding she was used as a “expert” witness in the trial.

            It is disturbing that ALV uses these examples of individual males instead of scenarios as a teaching method and it was beyond disturbing when she used them in her testimony at trial! Just when I thought she couldn’t do any more damage than she’s already done….

            She does revel in self gratification at the expense of others and what she perceives to be her celebrity status.

            Although I fast forwarded through some of the video I do plan to watch it in its entirety at some point.

            I appreciate your comment, you summed it up perfectly!

          • Nance I too watched less the 1 min. I could feel the rage building up in me. Thought I was a nice person now I’m having 2nd thoughts as I think of all the things I would like to do to several of these people.

    • Perhaps Jodi would like to name some of those ‘Meaningful mitigation witnesses” that Nurmi failed to find. Maybe she’d like Mom and Dad to answer those questions about their interrogation room remarks?

      Odious as he is, if I were Nurmi I wouldn’t answer this psycho’s calls either. He’s the guy who got her the undecided jury that saved her sorry ass from the needle. So far.

      Poor Jodi!™

      • I have thoroughly read the motion (all 12 pages) by Arias to have Nurmi fired. I have said from the beginning that this would be a ploy of hers and true to form, she has done it.
        Here is my take on this garbage……
        - She conveniently forgets that Nurmi wanted off this case and asked more than once to be taken off – regardless of his salary while on the case – he wanted off!!
        - She blames Nurmi for her testimony for 18 days
        - She blames Nurmi for no “meaningful” mitigation witnesses
        - She accuses Nurmi for lying – now that is slander in my books
        - She trashes Nurmi’s memory
        - She again trashes Travis by bringing up pedophilia
        - She forgets that she tried to send messages out via writing on edges of magazines and therefore any books she wants out of “holding” are being kept rather than released to her – all this cause of her own actions
        - if in fact Nurmi hung up on her or wouldn’t speak to her – could it have been because of what she was saying and therefore he instructed others to take her messages?
        - She states “it must be assumed that the client is emotionally and intellectually impaired” but forgets her statement that she has a good memory, and apparently an elevated IQ AND she had the where-with-all to preplan interviews and pick and choose who she will speak to
        - She now states she has “emotional and psychological shortcomings”
        - She accuses Flores and Horn of perjury – more slander
        - She trashes Deanna and accuses her of perjury
        - She brought up Nurmi saying to the jury that 9 out of 10 days he doesn’t like her – a comment she almost laughed at when said and one that has been made by other lawyers in their cases. For her it affected the jury in that they could not empathize with her – she, who shot, stabbed and slit Travis’s throat
        - She tellingly states that Nurmi has tried to see her but she has refused, all in the name of his ineffective counsel, lack of trust and “especially do not trust how he might conduct himself towards me” (woe is poor Arias)

        She can quote all she likes, make references to other examples she would like to bring up behind closed doors, but it does not change the fact……
        She is playing the victim – again!
        Nothing is her fault.
        Not one ounce of remorse for anyone except herself and the perceived injustice to her as a victim.

        And one must not forget – she is a liar!!!!

        I could go on and on but the simple truth is she is trying any tactic she can to delay and hopefully sway any future proceedings in her favour. She is “playing” the system in a calculated and manipulated manner which is true to form for her.

        Hopefully, her motion will be dismissed and seen by Judge Sherry for what it really is.

        • Nern, I haven’t read through Arias’ 12 pages yet, but will. However, your summary of the points Arias makes in her letter to Judge Stephens raised a red flag in my mind. In addition to all whom Arias was discrediting, this letter also sounds threatening to Judge Stephens. Arias must know she has gotten so much in her favor from this Judge. That Judge Stephens has been bending over backwards trying to avoid appeals. Well, this 12 page letter contains so many probable appeals that Arias just might think she is intimidating Judge Stephens, presently & in the future until the end of days…to infinity ~~~~~~~

          • Dawn – you are probably right. I am sure Judge Sherry is in her sights. this is just a prelude to what is ahead from her.

  5. Once again, Jodi is trying to slow down the process and is desperately
    trying to pull a rabbit out of the hat. This motion will be denied. Good God!
    Will someone please talk this loon into settling this case!

      • Penny, you and I have at least one thing in common! We can’t let go of certain things. I can’t let go of what a disgusting lying creep VILETTE is and you hold on to what a sorry judge is trying this case and in some ways, I do agree with you. I can’t remember knowing of another case where the judge lets years go by without bringing the trial to a conclusion. Is that typical? I am not aware of another case that this happened. Some of the trials I have kept up with, I notice the judges tend to say – enough, we are going to try this case and rule on motions, hell or high water. Judge Stephens, bless her soft spoken heart, seems to not want to upset the defense or Arias. What is going on? Surely a judge has the right to rule on motions during a six or eight month period without fearing that the superior court will overturn a verdict. Am I being naive here? Is holding the court up for months and possibly years a smart thing? I would think the sooner this thing is over, the better. Witnesses could die before this trial is completed, including the perpetrator and where would this trial be? Anyway, Penny, I hear you and I do wish Stephens would grow a pair. You know what I am saying? And I notice that I say creepy a lot in my postings. I can’t help it. Creepy is creepy. Sorry. I will try to contain my creepy feelings for all of you posters. Unless you agree with me!!!!

        • nance – I hear everything you are saying about Judge Sherry and believe that she could indeed speed things along and get this finished. She is a respected judge, but this being her first DP case could be why she is taking her time through all the motions. I think her strategy is to be as thorough as possible but may be getting lost in the mountain of motions being put before the court in order to be thorough.
          Now here is where I expect flack, but I did not get a sense of favouritism on her part towards any side, state or defense during the trial. I got the sense that she was as exasperated as so many others with the defense but to be true to her strategy, she made decisions that did not set well with those watching.
          I do not doubt for one minute that she agreed with the verdict reached and as hard as it was and remains for the Alexander family, she will follow her belief that justice will be done, even if it takes more time than most want.
          Indeed, this has been a long and arduous trial and could have been settled some time ago in all of our minds but we are not the judge in this case, with experience behind us and I feel she is doing what she feels is the fairest for all involved to reach a conclusion that can not be successfully challenged in the future.

          • Nern, no flack from me on your posting. Actually your continued pro-judge comments do help to bring me back down to earth. And I always feel like I shouldn’t express my frustration at her but I do it anyway. I think what makes me nuts is her lack of concern for simple respect in a courtroom. There have been so many things that I believe other judges would have called out on people in the audience (laughing inappropriately), Jodi taking pills in court (I believe that is very inappropriate), speaking so softly to the defense expert witnesses, almost like she is aplogetic for having to ask them if they could possibly please answer a question, the death mitigator laughing out loud when Vilette would be so disrespectful to Juan as well as possibly sexting during testimony (that was a real eye-opener and happened during the first few days of trial, horrible disrespectful behavior in a court of law), making the Alexander family have to sit only inches away from the butcher during the eyeball picture testimony (that one did it for me) and yet now I have to say since watching Vilette’s talk to those other similar cackling creepy women where she complains that the court was out of control made me want to protect the judge’s back. See? At one point, I am frustrated with the judge, the next time I have her back! I am hopeless, I think. And thank you for your postings. You guys have no idea how much I appreciate all of the posts. Please keep it up particularly when I gripe too much about the judge. It brings me back somehow and apparently only Penny and I get upset about all this. Now I feel bad once more for complaining about the judge. I do like to see a judge really get on people when they are out of control but maybe Judge Stephens thinks is better to let those things go in case it could throw the verdict out.

          • nance -
            Everyone’s opinion is valid. That is what makes a blog like this so interesting. We all can voice our concerns and although we may disagree, all of them are accepted with respect.
            Maybe I am overly optimistic and somewhat naïve regarding court proceedings but I feel that although this has been a slow, arduous process, with obvious missteps by those involved, I believe that the process is going forward as it should.
            I find it interesting that so many dissed Nurmi throughout the trial but now that Arias is after him, he is being defended for doing his job. I am not fond of this man, his court demeanor and his use of insulting evidence to defend his client. I do think he was using what he had and doing what he could, given the difficult client, to do his job. Don’t have to really like him as a person or for what he looks like or how he sits in his chair, BUT…. he was doing his job under the law. That is what Arias is entitled to.
            I feel that the judge is doing the same and neither will do it and satisfy everyone.
            As long as the end result is what it should be for this awful defendant, then who am I to judge how the process was handled.

          • NO nance we are not wrong about judge Stevens. Most judges would have had this case done and over. Jodi will have appeals no matter what. I don’t think ALV had to say anything about judge Stevens as the judge has made a circus of this whole trial. I can’t stand how this judge has run the trial. Total joke. It is apparent the judge has leaned over backwards for Jodi. She has allowed laughter and disrespect in her court room!

          • Penny, I always appreciate your postings. More than you can imagine! I am going to try VERY hard to be positive for the judge. I don’t really know much about the law, as I have said, but then when Nern posts, I feel bad about gripeing about the judge. (did I spell gripeing right? it looks weird!) I certainly would not want to have her responsibility. BUT. Some of the things I saw during the trial, and then here lately, after watching the youtube trial, I have to say that I am apalled at the disrespect that I have seen by the gallery AND the Arias family members, the Vilette idiots (this is including Vilette herself and her disrespect and lies), and the death mitigator. I know for a fact that in some trials, no judge would allow that type of behavior period. I have actually worked at a law firm, believe it or not. But after watching the latest Vilette posting where she gives a talk to those other idiot women who cackled like witches (those poor abused women who go to them for help, god help them) where Vilette says that it was an out of control court, I am now forced (because of my disgust of the lying Vilette) to stand by J

          • Hi Nance. Did you or anybody else hear what happened at the closed door hearing on Jodi yesterday? Bet it was postponed again. Nothing that judge does surprises me any more.

          • Penny – heard not a word but I would think that as soon as there is something, Dr. K. will post.

          • Not to give Nern flak (really!) but I’m not sure I agree the judge has been even-handed. Perhaps she has been even-handed in most of the rulings she eventually makes BUT extended delays in almost any ongoing case tend to favor the defense. And “justice delayed IS justice denied” in some of those cases. That is likely to be true here too because the guilt phase and the penalty phase have been abnormally severed.

            I get this is a death penalty case. I get there will be an appeal. And I get that the judge has no control over the number of motions the defense makes. But we didn’t see these kinds of delays in the Anthony trial although I didn’t agree with everything Judge Perry did there either—I was particularly bothered by his constant concern with the sequestered jury’s comfort. While some attention to that was necessary, I think Perry’s attention went beyond reasonable. And I think some of the things he did to keep the jury comfortable like trips to amusement parks/beach every weekend and frequent court visits by the “dessert lady” led to a greater cohesion and a reluctance on the jury’s part to really deliberate and risk disagreeing. In addition, they were so accustomed to being “entertained” and ‘coddled” at every turn, in the end it seemed they couldn’t sit still long enough to actually work. But we didn’t see excessive delays in other high profile DP cases either (like Scott Peterson.) I honestly think Judge Stephens feels she is in over her head but I’m not a legal expert.

          • lizzie -
            I did not watch the Anthony case or the Peterson case so I unable to speak to them.

            I do feel that each case is unique, each judge handles it the way they see fit and the defense and state both do their jobs to the best of their ability. I do not think we can compare any one case to another.

            We all can be bothered and have our BP rise as we disagree with proceedings AND we can all have differing opinions. But in the end, it is the judge and the other participants who truly know what is going on (in front of the cameras and behind the scenes). We as observers can only hope that justice is served.

            I believe that justice has been served in that Arias was convicted – beyond a shadow of doubt. Now what is left is her sentencing and although appalled at her gall and antics, I am not in the least surprised and given her latest rant, do not see that these delays favour the defense. Her words will come back to haunt her as she either dies or goes to prison for the rest of her life. Whatever the result, she did not win.

          • OMG get through those motions and get on with the trial. Most people I have talked to saw her being swayed towards Jodi.

          • If I could come up with 1st degree murder and 3 attempts of murder from start to finsh 6 days and the judge will sentence him 12-06-13 then why is Stevens so slow. I know it is not a DP case but it is LWOP. The judges courtroom I sat in he had control. Infact after the verdict was read either the wife or mom were crying out load and judge said “with due respect if you can not controll yourself please step out of the courtroom.” Now that is taking control.

          • Penny -
            I can not speak to any actual experience in a court of law except to get my divorce decree and therefore I have nothing personal to reference to.
            I agree with you – this has taken far too long but at the same time, I cannot, personally, second-guess the judge’s strategy.

          • Nern I think it was you and Penny asking about an update on yesterday’s hearing, 11/1/13.

            I believe there was a previous motion to seal these proceedings so until they are unsealed there won’t be any information coming out. We may learn about different rulings on motions that are being heard soon but the only thing I know from the hearing is that 2 more dates were set for oral arguments. I believe both dates are scheduled for November – mid-Nov and late Nov, if I remember correctly.

            No date set for retrial and I doubt there will be one set for quite a while. I don’t think we’ll see a retrial until 2015 but I could be wrong. Just wait and see. It’s the nature of the Arias case, delay, delay, delay some more.

          • I agree, Nern, we can’t truly compare cases because crucial facts will differ. But some posts on this site have tended to explain and/or excuse the frequent delays in this case. These delays have been either continuances directly mandated by this judge or delays indirectly caused by this judge’s slow speed in issuing rulings. Postings that tend to excuse/explain note the judge may be being extra-cautious because 1) this is a high-profile case and 2) this is a DP case. So I provided two examples of cases tried with more experienced judges that were both high profile and DP and those cases moved along. That was the only point of the comparison. And while we’d like to think all judges do their best to rule and to act in a purely judicial manner, those of us who are “old” will remember Judge Lance Ito of the OJ trial fame. His courtroom behavior certainly appeared to be influenced by the high-profile nature of that case. So it may happen that the behavior of a judge is not always as related to the purely legal facts of the case as we’d like!

          • lizzie – you make very valid points.
            But I see so many placing blame everywhere for the lengthy process.

            For me, the blame goes squarely on the shoulders of the defendant – Jodi Arias.

            She has the uncanny, evil, manipulating and calculated way to get under everyone’s skin. She has the where-with-all to dictate to her attorneys what she wants done knowing full well that they do not want to be on the case AND that they will also not jeopardize their careers by blatantly going against her wishes for her defense and thus leaving room for appeals after appeals after appeals.
            She uses her wiles to get her motions across to them and then lets them use their expertise in filing these motions appropriately through the court.
            The judge may take her own sweet time in ruling on motions but she does rule. I find it interesting that through all of these delays, there has not been to my knowledge even an inkling that the state is upset or making any overtures to the court to speed things up.
            But, oh poor, poor Arias, through all of your antics to date – you lost. You were convicted and the conviction was the correct one.
            Now, she is doing what has not surprised me in the least – attacking her lawyer on her own. This too will be to no avail. Next, it WILL be Wilma, the judge, Juan or anyone else she can nail. But her motions will be filed correctly and therefore will have to be considered and ruled on.

            Arias is the only person to blame for all that has gone on. It is HER fault and that is just my humble opinion.

  6. Is this a trial or an endurance test? When is this judge going to take control of proceedings, put an end to this psychopathic monster ruling the roost, and put her where she belongs – either locked away never to be seen or heard of again or, preferably, given Uppity’s intravenous cocktail. This farcical situation demands resolution. For how much longer should the victim’s family be afforded so little consideration? That they continue to absorb the punishment the system is inflicting on them, and to face it with such resolution, is to their everlasting credit, but it must have an end – and soon. Why should they (and others in similar situations) be forced to beg for justice for their loved one? When is the system going to show them proper consideration?
    This daughter of the devil demands consideration. Was any consideration given to her victim when she was dispensing her own form of justice to him? Yet she bleats for consideration for her own worthless self.
    I firmly believe that Arias warrants no consideration and merits nothing better than the death penalty – at least then the victim does not have to take a back seat while the killer is looked after by the very system of law which is supposed to be in place to protect, and which we all try to abide by. For too long there has been an imbalance in the scales of justice. This imbalance – heavily in favor of the perpetrator, and consequent ‘survivor’, must be rectified – otherwise there is no justice.
    Travis’ rejection of Arias was worthy enough, in her judgement, for him to forfeit his life. What more should she have done to her victim for the system to judge that her own should be forfeited? But then we are told that to take such a course of action is to commit further murder, so we give other considerations to the cold-blooded killer – and our consciences are easier, aren’t they? But has justice been dispensed – and our society better off?

  7. Everything Jodi Arias is doing now is to set up causes of action for an appellate court as a feeble attempt to get her first degree murder conviction overturned on grounds of ineffective counsel and that she didn’t get a fair trial. Right after the conviction, Arias gave several media interviews in which she said she didn’t get a fair trial because Juan Martinez concealed evidence and harassed her witnesses and her attorneys didn’t call witnesses who can prove she was abused and told her she didn’t have any mitigating factors.

    Now she has filed a motion to try to get rid of her lead attorney she earlier fought to keep, listing all the reasons why Kirk Nurmi provided ineffective counsel by quoting the ABA death Penalty guidelines and fabricating incidents against him. She is a pathological liar so she will make up whatever makes him look bad. I don’t believe her when she wrote that Nurmi said she wasn’t entitled to an attorney who would fight for her, that he instructed his secretary to hang up on her or that he was insensitive to her psychological problems.

    I am not a fan of Nurmi’s but I saw him fight for her tooth and nail in the courtroom. I watched Nurmi run to her side after she testified and tell the court they needed to suspend court for the day because she had a migraine or was sick because the sheriff’s department didn’t provide her with lunch. I witnessed him arguing motion after motion for a mistrial, saying she wasn’t getting a fair trial, even going so far as to accuse the judge and prosecutor of misconduct. Nurmi specializes in defending sex offenders so he knows Travis Alexander does not fit the profile of a pedophile and yet he insisted on playing that sex tape and repeatedly using the word rape to try to prove her false allegations. Now she is using Nurmi’s insistence in playing the sex tape against him too.

    Arias laughed in court when Nurmi told the jury they can’t convict her because they don’t like her, adding that “nine days out of ten, I don’t like Jodi Arias.” In her first post conviction interview, she told Troy Haden she approved of what Nurmi said. She even mentioned the attorney for Elizabeth Johnson, the mother suspected of murdering Baby Gabriel, said the same thing in defending her on custodial interference charges in Phoenix. Now Arias is using the very words she approved of against Nurmi, to claim ineffective counsel. It won’t fly because attorneys use that tactic all the time. Jose Baez told the jury Casey Anthony was a slut and liar, but not a murderer. Martin MacNeill’s attorney told the jury his lying cheating behavior was “disgusting” but they can’t use emotion to convict him of murder.

    Arias knows that the judge will not let her fire Nurmi and will not allow him to quit because she has said several times he must remain because he has been with her from the beginning and knows the case better than any lawyer. Arias admits Nurmi attempted to see her twice but she refused and says any attorney with any respect would not defend a client that refuses to see them. By refusing to see him and making false charges against him, Arias is trying to bully, embarrass, humiliate and anger Kirk Nurmi so he will refuse to represent her no matter what the judge rules to prove her case that he is lazy, incompetent and not “fighting” for her. It won’t work. Judge Stephens and Nurmi are not going to be manipulated by her temper tantrum and lies and neither is an appellate court.

    • Hah…you’re right! I distinctly remember now that Jodi had said the “9 days out of 10 I don’t like Jodi Arias” comment was her idea. She said she had heard Elizabeth’s lawyer say something along the lines of not needing to like her so she asked Nurmi to incorporate something similar.

      Thank you for reminding me of this.

  8. I do enjoy hearing these deception experts dissect the evil ones. Phil Houston is a master at his craft. I would love to see him as an expert witness and testify in this case, I know, wishful thinking.

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Jodi is upset the spotlight is not on her right now. So, she goes to twitter to try and make herself relevant – see my websites, buy my ‘artwork’, poor me, would you donate to my appeal fund, buy a t-shirt, poor me, we’re all bankrupt, my dad’s diner is closing, poor me, my family hasn’t profited but will you continue to throw money my way? Por favor? My attorney sucks, let me file a motion to get rid of him, poor me. HLN is covering the MacNeill trial, where’s my spotlight gone? Poor, pitiful me.

    She claims Nurmi doesn’t listen to her which adversely affected her testimony at trial. Her testimony was well rehearsed and it was dictated by her lies. The motion is mere deception, lies and manipulation, all qualities that make up Arias.

    The comment she made in reference to perjury by Flores and Dr Horn goes hand in hand with the change.org petition I referenced in another comment I made here on this blog recently.

    I agree with Observer’s comment here regarding the motion and particularly Nurmi’s statement about disliking his client 9 days out of 10. She laughed and approved of it. It is a tactic lawyers use to save their client, you don’t have to like them, follow jury instructions and remove emotion.

    Don, your comment was on point and really sums it up well. It’s downright appalling and I’ve never seen anything like it, hope to never see anything like it again. Although there are blatantly obvious shortcomings in the justice system, this is over the top.

    • Tracy, what did you think of Gypsy Willis? I know you were anticipating her testimony.

      It’s obvious Gypsy Willis thinks she is the cat’s meow the way she sashayed into the courtroom swinging her long henna died hair, showing cleavage and smiling like she was an academy award actress on a red carpet. After all, how many women are so desirable, sexy and irresistible that their doctor/lawyer lover kills his wife, abandons his children and steals from them for her?

      I think she is pretending to cooperate with the authorities so she doesn’t go back to jail but doesn’t want to be a snitch. I bet he told her he was going to kill Michelle for her and she may even helped hold Michelle’s head underwater because the good doctor pretended to have cancer and was too weak to get the job done. But she’s pretending like she hardly knew him.

      Actually Gypsy Willis looked fat, trashy and like a bad porn actress trying to distance herself from the messy scandal. In her soft little voice she acted like it was just a casual discreet affair and that she was dating others when the prosecutor impeaches her. She just shrugs when the prosecutor shows her an email where she turned down a date because she said an old friend became something more in March, one month before his wife is found dead in her bathtub. She also tried to downplay the facts that Martin paid for her nursing education, put her up in an apartment in March and gave her a credit card.

      She acted like it was normal to exchange texts with your married lover 15 times the day his wife dies, attend your lover’s wife’s funeral, move in as the nanny and steal his daughter’s social security number and open credit accounts in his daughter’s name while she is abandoned, homeless and without food in the Ukraine. Gypsy’s own family has said she is evil and hated his wife and was determined to marry Martin MacNeill. He told her family Gypsy was his soul mate before Michelle’s death and proposed to her in front of her family after the death but they were arrested for identity fraud before they could marry.

      A year ago, she said at the preliminary hearing, Martin and she were still planning on getting married and made goo goo eyes at him as she walked past him. Yesterday she walked past him without even looking at him.

      Me thinks Gypsy has found a new sugar daddy since her handsome doctor/lawyer is now old and broke since as a convicted felon he was forced to give up his medical and law license and she gave up her nursing license. Neither can support themselves.

      • Observer, I was sickened by Gypsy’s testimony especially on the heels of Rachel’s testimony. Although jurors will see her for who she is, I wish the prosecutor would be a bit animated to bring the obvious to light.

        I saw shots of her walking into the courthouse that day, she was all smiles acting like a celebrity. I noticed the smiles during testimony too, it bothers me to no end to see this behavior during a murder trial.

        I see her for who she is – like you say, fat, cleavage hanging out, dyed hair – a fake, not the star she perceives herself to be. Unless we’re talking porn star in which case I would say a trashy porn star.

        I wish the state had the content of all those text messages that were sent between the two. I’m sure she had a role in the murder, if not directly, certainly indirectly.

        The way she responds to the state’s questioning drives me crazy. A casual, discreet affair that she feels is justified when in fact she was fully involved and caused irreversible consequences – she doesn’t care. Granted, Martin is responsible for his actions but she was fully involved and shares responsibility. She can try to downplay it all, but her past and present behavior is obvious.

        Yes, she acted as if it was very normal to exchange 15 text messages on that day. In her words, it was a very important day. Sure, the day she had been waiting for when she could take up residence in the MacNeill home and assume the role of Mrs MacNeill and further ruin the family. Just sickening!

        I think the jury will believe Rachel’s version of the temple visit over Gypsy’s version. I’m glad the state has a few days off in between the direct questioning considering her answers and demeanor on Friday. I wonder if they will bring up the fact she had still intended on marrying Martin at the preliminary hearing. I was glad to hear the state bring up the fact that she is testifying as part of a plea bargain, that speaks volumes to the jury insofar as her credibility alone.

        It’s hard to know whether she’s moved on to another sugar daddy or if she’ll wait for him but I think you’re right. He’s useless to her now.

        • Tracy, I agree with all you say about this “Gypsy.” I could think she would want to give her name as “Jillian.” But then, she did not dress for court in any normal way. She looked like a slut. She is more than trash. Hey, I would not want to cross her without anyone around! She is sleaze…& tough. She has a bargain deal, immunity, so she could, supposedly, testify against Martin MacNeil, which she is clearly trying NOT to do. Her testimony is almost perjury. She is playing down everything, bordering on lying. It is only the prosecutor that brings the truth out. This bargain deal to testify is oh so bad, although I presume it is needed to convict Martin. “Bad,” because SHE could be accessory to MURDER!!! It is obvious she had a hand in killing Michelle. If not directly holding her under the water, then planning it. All those text messages before, during, & after. Most likely why Martin hung up on the 911 calls because he was getting a text from Gypsy. I can visualize the doctor husband reading texts from her with one hand, as he is holding a drugged Michelle under the water with the other. Yes, like Gypsy was right there! No wonder Rachel was hysterical. She may be bipolar, but medication would help hysteria behavior. No, I feel Rachel felt so much. Relived it all. Imagine being these sisters?! Living something that would not be believed in a novel! And their brother committed suicide in 2010!!! Then they have Gypsy, who “killed” their mother. And Gypsy is in their face, smirking. Like she is so pleased at all tat happened. This is EVIL. Again! Reminds me of another female, in all respects, we all have been following: Porn, disrespect in the courtroom, no remorse, a slap to the family. And the testifying witnesses are also sociopaths. Gypsy. Laviolette.

          • On ABC ‘s 20/20 “Life of Lies” Gypsy’s father, mother and sister said Gypsy tortured animals as a child. Gypsy’s sister, who is a prettier version of Gypsy, called Gypsy a sociopath and said she would do anything to anybody to get what she wanted. She said Gypsy and Martin were a perfect match in a bad way. She said they were like two dogs. Alone they may barely bite but together they could kill. Gypsy’s sister said she believed Gypsy and Martin together killed Michelle.

            Gypsy’s mother also said that Martin told her he did not love Michelle but he loved Gypsy. He also proposed to Gypsy in front of them.

            Her mother said Gypsy bit her and left her teeth marks on her arm. I’ve attached a link to the video of the 20/20 documentary that also features Alexis and Rachel. In this video, Rachel sounds and looks like a different person than she did on the stand.

            It was filmed in 2010 while Martin and Gypsy were serving sentences in a Texas federal prison for identity fraud and before he was charged with murder.

            http://abcnews.go.com/watch/2020/SH559026/VD55219100/2020-713-life-of-lies?rfr=rss

          • Thank you Observer, I watched 20/20 from your link. And oh boy, should be something when Gypsy’s family gets on the stand to testify…against her & MacNeil.

          • The prosecutor on Martins case sounds like a wimp to me. Hope I’m wrong. Lady defender I just want to slap the smirk off her mouth. I would convict Martin. To bad I’m not on that case. Nobody can compare to ALV. She needs to go away for good.

      • My thoughts on Gypsy – She will not testify against Martin because she was an accessory to that murder. Don’t think she was there but knew of Martins plot. To me she looks fat and ugly. Why he would want to kill his wife for her is beyond me. He ruined all his childrens lifes and think he sent youngest in the bathroom to find her mother. Hope he gets LWOP.

        • Penny, Martin MacNeil had many women throughout his marriage. None mattered, as his wife did not. He is not capable of caring, of love. Michelle most likely was another conquest. A beautiful woman on his arm to boost HIS image. Gypsy was heavy when he met her…but not like now. She is also @ 20 years younger. A boost to his aging self. Why he stuck with her? The two of them loved to take risks, many, which led to them being caught. Gypsy herself was a major risk to Martin, as she was, is, a slut screwball not living within the norms of society. And maybe when he met his female match/mate demon, he got comfy. They could “play” evil together. But I bet, if it came to pass THEY got away with murder & settled down to Ozzie & Harriet, Brady Bunch living…Ha! No Way. Martin would eventually dump Gypsy. B-o-r-i-n-g. And once out in the open, a shameful image to a “doctor/lawyer…the porn she is. He would move onto the next segment of his life, living on deceit, lies, manipulation. MacNeil’s whole life has been “living-on-the-edge.” A sociopath who needs to live only for his welfare, hurt others, & pump his life-saving adrenaline.

          • Dawn great insight. I feel so bad for Martin’s children. Can you imgine the hurt and pain the son must have gone through to commit suicide? I hope the jury finds him guilty and he gets LWOP. Today will be interesting watching Gypsy again on the stand.

        • Penny, you must not be watching the trial because Gypsy is testifying for the prosecution and she has no choice. Gypsy testified Friday afternoon and will continue her testimony Tuesday as part of a plea bargain after being convicted of felony identity fraud. She is not admitting she knew he was going to kill and then killed his wife but she admitted Martin and she had a sexual affair for a year and a half before Michelle died, that he put her up in an apartment and gave her a credit card and that she moved in with Martin as the nanny after Michelle’s death and pretended to be his wife.

          • Observer just watched Gypsy. She made sure to make light of the affair. Don’t think she helped the prosecution that much as jury already knew they had an affair and were texting durning and after funeral. I think Ada will be the one that connects the dots.

    • Nance and Tracy I too would like to know what Juan had on ALV. Seems nobody has any idea. Jodi firing Nurmi is just another antic to postpone her sentencing phase. When Nurmi wanted off judge said no but I won’t be surprised if judge lets jodi fire him as she seems to be swayed by Jodi.

  9. Does anybody have an inkling of what Juan had on Vilette that was known in a closed door session towards the end of her testimony? It sort of sounds like possible unethical behavior but I never heard even a whisper of what was found out about her or whatever it was.

  10. It was heartbreaking to listen to little Ada MacNeill being interviewed by a female police officer in 2008 when she was seven, just a year after she found her mother dead in the bathtub.

    It was so painful to hear her sweet soft voice keep saying, “I don’t want to talk about it” when the investigator asked about her mother and father and what happened April 11, 2007 when she found Michelle MacNeill, her biological grandmother and adopted mother, dead in the bathtub.

    After the investigator left Ada alone where she furiously colored and knocked things off the table, Ada opened up and told the investigator her mother was fully clothed when she found her in the tub. She said her mother was wearing a dark blue jacket and dark blue pants lying in the tub “wetting her hair.”

    When my daughters were young, I used to wash their hair in the bathtub and they would lay back and immerse their hair in the water. Her mother’s eyes were open so the poor little thing did not know her mother was dead. She thought her mother was just “wetting her hair.” That explains why the neighbors said Ada was calm when she came over and said her father needed help. She had no idea her mother was dead.

    I found it fascinating the way the interviewer built up a rapport with Ada and then kept going back to her finding her mother in the bathtub. Ada volunteered that her mother was fully clothed and described the jogging suit Rachel found in the garage bloody and wet and washed and turned over to the police.

    I think it was even more powerful for the jurors to see Ada testifying at seven when she is so young, vulnerable and innocent than now when she is 12 years old and had time to change her story. This interview shows a child who is telling the truth without anybody putting ideas in her head or words in her mouth.

    I thought it was damming testimony because it shows MacNeil sent Ada next door to the neighbors house so he could undress Michelle to make it look like she was taking a bath and drowned. He got the pants off and in the garage but couldn’t get the top off before the neighbors showed up. Because she was half dressed, he told police, EMTs and Rachel and Alexis that he found Michelle slumped over with her head underwater with just her top on. His theory was Michelle fell while running a tub and hit her head.

    The defense didn’t dare question Ada because they didn’t want to open the door to the prosecution to get Ada to add more detail to the story. I believe the judge’s ruling that the tape be played benefited the prosecution because the jury heard that Michelle was fully clothed lying in the tub. Ada sounded so innocent and sincere I can’t image anyone believing MacNeill’s story over hers. Besides Ada’s account fits what the neighbors described and the EMT’s testimony that there was levity in Michelle’s back and back of legs showing she had been lying on her back in the tub for a long time.

    Despite her trying to help her pathetic former lover, I think Gypsy Willis helped the prosecution when the prosecutor showing her written proof forced her to admit she sexted Martin the day after Michelle died, was shopping for wedding rings in June and Martin proposed in July giving her a 4.5 carat $7,000 diamond ring. Hardly the actions of a grieving husband whose wife of 30 years accidentally died.

    Vicki Willis, Gypsy’s mother was a better witness, testifying that Martin MacNeill told her that he loved Michelle like a sister but not like he did Gypsy and that he got down on his knees and proposed to Gypsy on July 4 at a lavish party at a Cheyenne, Wyoming restaurant attended by Gypsy’s family. Another blow to Martin’s defense.

    I noticed Gypsy’s mother turn her picture over so she didn’t have to look at her. She said the last time she saw Gypsy was in 2007 so it is obvious they are estranged. I wonder if they ran into each other in the courtroom.

  11. Observer you are so right about Macneill’s court today. Only thing that worries me is the fact that the one thing that connects the dots is how she was found in the tub and Martin is the only one that said anything different. I’m wondering why he didn’t undress her at the beginning? I do feel he is guilty but don’t think the prosecuter is doing a very good job of proving this. I know he isn’t Juan but he is to lax and not demanding enough of any of the witness. I hope Ada was able to get to the jury today. Scared that might be only chance of finding him guilty.

  12. I was mesmerized by Alexis Sommers testimony against her dad. I think she is the best witness the prosecution has so far. She is the stable daughter who is married with a career as a doctor and got legal custody of her four younger sisters after their father dumped them on a family in California and still is raising three of them and just had twins of her own.

    She established that she and her mother were best friends and confided in each other, her mother knew about her father’s affair with Gypsy Willis March 20, her father gave her mother the plastic surgery as a surprise gift, paid for in advance and insisted her mother have the plastic surgery on April 3, although her mother wanted to wait until summer when Alexis would be home. she could get her blood pressure down and lose weight, her father was angry her mother stayed in the hospital over night, over medicated her mother the night she came home from the hospital and fought with her mother over his mistress Gypsy Willis two days before she died, her mother talked to her at 8:30 am that morning and said she was dressed, upbeat and happy and planning to pick her sisters at school, her father texted her an hour later and said her mother wouldn’t stay in bed to call her and she couldn’t reach her mother, when she called after class her father answered and said her mother wasn’t breathing and he called 911, her father told her he found her mother naked from the waste down slumped over the tub with her head in the water and her feet sticking out of the tub, he thought she might have fallen or had a pulmonary embolism, her mother always got in the tub and then filled it with water and her father told her the police took the medications and her little black book where she recorded the medications was missing. She also stated she found wet clothes in the garage just as Rachel had testified.

    Vanessa was shaky and crying and said she found voice mails on her mother’s phone of her father saying he was worried about her, to stay in bed, and that he was coming to make her a sandwich. Sabrina, the adopted Eukranian daughter, stated that her mother was sitting on a couch in front of the TV, looking tired from just getting up but was fine and had a normal conversation with her before she left for school that day. She also stated that she was happy that the MacNeills adopted her and was very close to Michelle but hardly knew Martin since he was always working and rarely home.

    I am enthralled at how much Sabrina looks like Alexis, Rachel and Vanessa. She could be their blood sister. Little Ada, who is Vanessa’s blood daughter, looks like them also. Michelle was beautiful so she has beautiful daughters. Damian was gorgeous also. None of them resemble Martin MacNeill.

    • In cross, the stupid defense attorney is putting the jury to sleep by nitpicking every word Alexis said in other interviews. It’s backfiring because Alexis is strong and fending off every blow. The stupid attorney is also adding new information that is damaging to Martin’s defense. In attempting to impeach her, the stupid attorney read a statement in which Alexis said Michelle was fearful after Martin sedated her and Alexis repeated, “yes she was fearful of him.” That wasn’t even brought up in trial. That’s the last image the defense should want of Michelle being fearful of Martin since he is charged with murdering her.

      He also brought up that Alexis was suing her father for the house and she countered that she was the executor of her mother’s estate and it was her job to get money due to the state. That could open up the door for the prosecution to bring up that MacNeill was arrested for fraud, convicted and sentenced to four years in federal prison after trying to sell the house that was in Michelle’s name. Acting as Michelle’s attorney after she died he took her name off the house without telling the court she was deceased and quick claimed it to Gypsy Willis and tried to sell it and leave town with his mistress. Federal agents being tipped by Alexis and Linda posed as buyers for the house and caught him in his scam.

      • I hate to say this but I don’t think the prosecutor for the Macneill trial is putting the puzzle together enough for the jury to convict him. I do think he is guilty but don’t know if jury will come up with that.

        • I disagree Penny. I think the prosecutor is doing a terrific job in proving this circumstantial case because every witness offers something to the puzzle. They have so many witnesses that corroborate what the evidence and other witnesses prove. If you, I and millions of people watching the trial are convinced of his guilt after hearing the circumstantial evidence, the jurors most likely will also.

          In not very many cases do you have seven daughters testifying against their father and all saying they loved their father and respected him so they have no reason to lie.

          Martins own seven daughters and his bizarre behavior before, during and after Michelle’s death will convict him.

          What juror could not be convinced by a six year old girl who finds her mother lying in the tub in a half tub full of brown water and a 30 year old daughter who says her mother called her happy and feeling great and planning on picking up her daughters at school and then a few hours later is found dead in a bathtub full of drugs.

          Throw in a mistress whom he texts the day of her death, the day after, during the funeral and fabricates documents that he and his mistress were married on the date of his wife’s funeral and proposes to her two months after his wife’s death.

          • Observer I so hope your right about the Macneill trial. Just hope the jury is not looking at the affairs he has had as that proves nothing. I also wonder if they think the daughters are just angry because they were taken out of his will. We see things that jury doesn’t on TV which is to bad. I do think he is guilty and hope juty will see it that way. Thanks you did make me feel better with your post.

          • Penny, I wouldn’t worry about what the jury is going to do or that they don’t have the information we have.

            With the testimony the jury has already heard, I think the state has already proven that MacNeill had the motive, means and opportunity to murder his wife.

            Gypsy Willis testified they had an affair for one and a half years before Michelle’s death and they texted each other 15 to 30 times the day of her death, the day after and at Michelle’s funeral. He moved Gypsy in the house two weeks after Michelle’s death and proposed to her two months later and she was masquerading as his wife with a marriage date of April 14, 2007, the day of Michelle’s funeral. Alexis testified her mother knew about Gypsy and her parents fought over her two days before her mother’s death. Gypsy’s mother testified that Martin told her he loved Michelle like a sister but not like he did Gypsy. That is powerful evidence of a strong motive.

            Alexis testified that her father surprised her mother with the face lift, insisted she have it April 3 although she wanted to wait until the summer and gave the plastic surgeon a list of drugs he wanted prescribed for her mother. The plastic surgeon testified that he didn’t normally prescribe all those drugs but MacNeill insisted and since he was a doctor the surgeon prescribed the drugs although he warned her they shouldn’t be taken all at once. That proves premeditation.

            Ada, neighbors and EMTs all testified Michelle was found lying face up in the tub wearing clothing although they differed on what clothing. Martin told Alexis and Rachel, police and EMTs he found Michelle slumped over the tub with her head in the water and her feet sticking out. He told 911 he couldn’t lift her out, she was underwater, and that he drained the tub and was doing CPR. EMTs testified it is impossible to do CPR leaning over a deep tub and when they took over Michelle coughed up a lot of water. That proves MacNeall was lying about how Michelle’s body was found, giving CPR and not being able to get her out of the tub and why lie unless you are guilty of murder.

            Law Enforcement and EMTS also testified he was yelling and screaming and they feared for their safety while doing CPR in the house and yelling, “I told you not to have the surgery. I told you not to take the medication.” He continued this bizarre behavior into the emergency room and then when he knew Michelle was dead offered the doctor $10,000 to continue resuscitation efforts. That proves he was putting on a show of concern when he didn’t care at all.

            Co-workers testified he insisted on receiving his Safety Fair award an hour early and that he be photographed as proof he was at the Science Fair. That shows me Michelle was already dead and he was setting up an alibi.

            Alexis and Sabrina both testified that although their mother was still recovering from surgery, she was weaned off most of the medications and was positive and happy when they talked to her the morning she died. It makes no sense that an hour or two later Michelle would be found dead fully or partially clothed in a bloody bathtub with several medications in her system. That scene screams murder to me.

            Another mistress testified that MacNeill told her he knew how to kill someone with drugs and make it look like a heart attack without it being detected. Even if she is wacky, this rings true because doctors learn what medicines react in what way in medical school. That shows he had the means and being alone with her in the house after the kids went to school shows he had the opportunity. His office and the school were only a few minutes from his home.

            We still haven’t heard the testimony of four inmates who claim MacNeill told them Michelle was a bitch, he killed her and the state can’t prove she was murdered. The inmates, who served with him in federal prison when he was convicted for fraud, are afraid for their lives if they are labeled snitches and have asked that their names not be revealed or their faces shown on camera. If they are willing to risk their lives they must be telling the truth.

  13. I think it is spectacular that all of the sisters, one-by-one are heading to the stand. This makes it all the more powerful. Yes, except Alexis, the sisters are pretty distraught on the stand. This is understandable needing to relive all. But I wonder if they are whacked out from their life with Dad. This had to be a very dysfunctional home with Michelle trying to hold it together. Even though the sisters say life was good with Daddy, I fine this difficult to believe. He is a sick SOB & has been all his life, as evidenced by testimony by co-workers. I would imagine Michelle deferred to him, as most people did. He has this “presence.” I would think Michelle was an emotionally abused woman. Just the fact that she stood up to him about Gypsy a few days before her surgery, she & Martin had a big fight, but she was going to pursue this more, like, standing up to him. But, even though she did not want the face lift just yet, she had it anyway because MacNeil insisted. And as for the children, I read that there was something about acting sexually towards one daughter?! Anyway, it is difficult to imagine MacNeil was not a screamer, ranting & raving at home & a very forceful presence, all the family’s life. It became the “norm,” so maybe perceived as a “happy” childhood. They did not know any different. And then, maybe this is what the daughters needed to say on the stand, a happy childhood with Dad, to juxtapose the crazy, deceitful father with Gypsy & killing Mom. Like, to show a major change in Dad. Whatever, I cannot believe it was a good life for Michelle with Martin. Dr. Randle, it would be so helpful to have you comment on the Michelle & the sisters. I find their behavior on the stand very “telling.” Thank you.

    • Dawn, you’re so right. Martin MacNeill fits the profile of an abuser because he dominated Michelle completely. She did everything he wanted because I suspect she was afraid of him. Alexis wasn’t allowed to testify to this on the stand but she told the media that in the weeks before Michelle’s death, Martin had been verbally abusive, threatening to leave Michelle and give back the four adopted daughters.

      The plastic surgeon and the doctor who gave Michelle a physical exam before the surgery said Martin did most of the talking and Michelle was very quiet and depressed. The physician even kicked Martin out of the office so he could talk to Michelle before he gave her the physical. The neighbors described Michelle as quiet and Martin bragging about being a doctor and lawyer. Sabrina, 19, testified that she rarely saw Martin after the MacNeill’s adopted her at 11, because he worked all the time and it was Michelle who took her to dance and school.

      Michelle’s mother and sisters didn’t like Martin and didn’t want Michelle to marry him but she eloped with him at 19 and Martin kept her from them.

      This is what a Salt Lake City newspaper wrote about Michelle’s mother’s reaction to Martin.

      Helen Somers was afraid for her daughter the first time she met Martin MacNeill.

      Her soon to be son-in-law didn’t seem genuine. “I had a bad feeling about him,” she said.

      Her bishop even called her and warned her not to allow her daughter Michele to go out with him, she said, but he couldn’t say why.

      “I thought he was just a big actor,” recalled Michele’s younger sister, Linda Cluff. “He walked in like he owned the house. He just gave me the creeps.”

      Despite her family’s misgivings, Michele fell for Martin hard. Partly because the family didn’t approve, the couple’s dating became secretive. She felt sorry for her new boyfriend. “She would defend him and say, ‘If you only knew about his childhood …,’ ” Cluff said of her sister.

      Martin had told Michele he loved her so much and couldn’t live without her — even once putting a gun to his head and telling her he’d kill himself if she stopped dating him.

      Shortly after learning Martin had eloped with Michele, Somers spotted a newspaper article about her new son-in-law with the headline: “ ’Brilliant’ forgery spree inspired by TV.”

      Just before meeting Michele, Martin had forged $35,000 in checks and had gone on a three-day spending spree buying diamond rings, 60 pairs of socks, couches, chairs, a grandfather clock, watches, bicycles, a refrigerator, 20 pairs of shoes, TVs, tires, a wardrobe of clothes and more.

      “I don’t know why I did it,” Martin later told a court psychiatrist. “I didn’t want the stuff. I didn’t need the stuff.”

      Martin told police he got the idea after watching a “60 Minutes” episode about how check forgers worked. He told friends he could do it better and with fewer risks.

      Somers wanted to learn more about her new son-in-law. She obtained records about his crimes and soon learned that Martin was discharged from the military for schizophrenia after hearing voices.

      “I wouldn’t be surprised if he killed her some day,” Somers remembers telling two of her other daughters 31 years ago.

      http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700088382/Martin-MacNeill-Was-his-wife-Micheles-death-accidental-or-was-it-murder.html?pg=all

    • I think the defense will say the sister’s tesified against their father for 2 reasons. 1- sisters found out he was cheating on mom and brought his lover into the home. 2- he disinherited them. I do agree he is a bully and ran that household.It was Alexis that said he toucher 2 times after her mother died. That is still on the burner. It didn’t help the case that not one of the three coronors came up with any evidence that she was murdered. The only thing they do have on Macneill is how he said she was draped over the tub and 3 other people plus Ada said she was laying in the tub. I can’t stand the SOB and DO think he is GUILTY but think he will get away with it.

  14. Of all the doctors taking the stand, I think Dr. Joshua Perper, retired Florida medical examiner, who reviewed Michelle’s autopsy, toxicology, blood and medical reports from the hospital where she had plastic surgery, makes the most sense. Dr. Perper said Michelle died as a result of drowning because she regurgitated half a gallon of water at the house when EMTs did CPR and regurgitated additional water at the hospital. He also said Michelle did not have myocarditis. Perper also said that the drugs in her system could have contributed to her death.

    The jury is rivited to his testimony and taking notes.

    Dr. Maureen Frikke, Utah medical examiner at the time of Michelle’s death in April 2007, ruled that Michelle’s died of natural causes due to cardiovascular disease, high blood pressure and myocarditis after consulting with Dr. Macheill. Dr. Frikke died of breast cancer on March 22, 2008. Medical Examiner Dr. Todd Grey inherited Michelle’s case. In 2010, after going over law enforcements investigation, Dr. Grey changed her cause and manner of death to suspicious and added that the drugs in her system and myocarditis contributed to her death. On the stand, he said Michelle could have drowned but he didn’t know for sure. Cardiologist Dr. David Cragan who examined Michelle’s autopsy and medical records, said Michelle had mild myocarditis but that wouldn’t be the cause of death. He said most patients have myocarditis.

    The prosecution is saying MacNeill drugged and drowned his wife and the defense is saying she had a heart attack and fell in the tub and drowned. Ada told the female police officer that the tub was half full and Michelle was fully clothed but MacNeill says he found Michelle with her head underwater and her feet sticking up. MacNeill told 911 Michelle was underwater, he couldn’t get her out but he was draining the tub and giving her CPR. When three neighbors arrived, they described Michelle as lying face up in the tub with her head towards the faucet. The reports of lividity in her back and back of legs indicates she was lying on her back for a long time. In the interview played to the jury, Ada doesn’t say her mother was lying face up so the defense may spin it to say she was lying face down. I wish the police investigator had asked Ada to demonstrate or draw a picture of her mother lying in the tub.

    Tracy and Dawn what do you think?

    • I believe the jury could go either way with this circumstantial case, it all depends. In most recent cases, Drew Peterson got convicted, Casey Anthony didn’t. If they put all the pieces of the case together, and I mean every last detail, I believe there’s a good chance of a guilty verdict. On the other hand, they may be like the Anthony jury and have reasonable doubt and not want to convict. It does worry me. I will say I’ve been very impressed with their questions which makes me feel a little better about a conviction. They show that they are paying attention, are intelligent and may even have some medical background. Yesterday one of the jurors asked about suffocating someone in a drowning attempt which the dr replied that a dry lung drowning was possible. I believe they are thinking that Martin was capable of killing Michele and making it look like an accident. When I initially heard the other mistress testify I thought maybe it was not so useful testimony because of her mental illness and may not be believable but if anything it planted the idea (besides the fact that he was a cheating husband) that Martin could attempt to commit murder without being caught which is exactly what happened. I have been following the reporters in the courtroom and noted that the jury was taking copious notes during Alexis’ testimony but was not during cross examination. As a matter of fact, it was reported that they seemed quite bored and distracted during that time. As boring as it was at the beginning of trial I believe every witness had critical information to add to the puzzle, I just hope the jury kept notes then like they are now.

      It’s obvious to me that Dr Frikke was heavily influenced by Martin and the fact that he was a dr, Alexis a first yr med student. She saw a prominent family and wouldn’t suspect homicide so I believe her findings were not as relevant as subsequent MEs who had more information. I agree with you about Dr Perper making the most sense, he was a star witness in my opinion. I highly respect his many years of experience and knowledge. Martin had another physician prescribe a cocktail of meds so he wouldn’t be culpable, he then gave enough of each med to compromise her CNS so she couldn’t fight back, then drown her to make it look like she did it herself. If you were to take every woman her age, height and weight and dissect their heart I’m sure you would see similar findings as they did with Michele in a lot of them. I can come to a reasonable conclusion about her death but this is where I worry about the jury not being able to convict, too many experts not agreeing on cause of death. Will they throw up their hands because of it, who knows.

      I saw Gypsy’s parents on HLN’s After Dark and her father had a lot to offer so I’m confused why they didn’t use him as a witness at the last minute. Perhaps it would have duplicated what the mother testified to but I found it to be very useful information. Today after the jury was released the prosecution tried to get prior bad acts into evidence due to the defense opening the door with Alexis and Sabrina, specifically Martin’s history of fraud and kicking the girls out of the house. Unfortunately it was denied. The defense is also trying to keep out the inmate’s statement pertaining to Martin calling Michele a bitch. The judge is going to rule on it Tuesday morning. During this time I heard defense attorney Spencer mention that his wife saw Mrs Willis, Gypsy’s mother, on Nancy Grace and contradicted what she testified to during trial. They weren’t on Nancy Grace, it was After Dark and obviously the defense, or at least the defense atty’s wife, is riveted on HLN.

      Regarding Ada’s taped testimony, I found it to be very compelling because you know it’s truthful. What I took away from it was Michele was in the tub lying face up but I’d have to listen to it again. Ada gave the impression that her mother was in the tub, she said where the water level was. The way she kept saying her mother was just trying to wet her hair could leave the impression that she was bent over the tub but that doesn’t make sense, it was a large tub with water in it. I don’t think the defense could spin it any other way.

      • Tracy the picture Ada drew was of her mother laying face up in the tub. I have felt from the beginning that Martin is guilty but as you stated the jury has to feel there is no reasonable doubt that it was murder. That also worries me.

        • Penny, the jury didn’t see Ada’s drawing because the police asked Alexis to have Ada draw the picture and the judge said Ada’s story was tainted by Alexis because her story changed. In her original story, Alexis told investigators Ada said her mother’s head was at the other end of the tub and the investigators said that didn’t match what the neighbors said.

          In the picture, Ada draws her mother’s head by the faucet where the neighbors saw her. Also, Alexis drew the bathtub and wrote down what she claimed Ada told her.

          The interview with the police woman was allowed because she was trained on how to interview children and asked open ended questions. All the jury heard Ada say was that her mother was lying in the tub with her clothes on. The investigator asked her if she was all the way in the tub or with her feet sticking out and she said she was all the way in the tub.

          Ada never said Michelle was lying face up but when we think of lying in the tub, we think of lying face up like the neighbors saw her. If Martin couldn’t get her out of the tub, he couldn’t flip her over so Ada saw her the way the neighbors saw her.

      • Tracy, I didn’t see HLN After Dark last night. Did Gypsy’s mother say something different than what she said on the stand? What did her father say?

        The Casey Anthony jury seemed to be anti prosecution and forgot Casey was on trial, not George. The foreman said all the jurors thought George either killed her or covered up an accidental drowning, they didn’t consider any of the circumstantial evidence and the chloroform wasn’t enough to kill a child and the duct tape was too small to kill Caylee. He said Baez was an excellent attorney and did a great job but Ashton was unprofessional.

        Provo is predominantly Mormon so except for the long haired young guy, most of the jurors are probably Mormons as are the judge, prosecutor and defense attorneys except for the female. I’m Mormon and I’ve lived in Utah. Mormons are law and order and believe in telling the truth and the fact that Martin lied to his wife, his children, his church members, the police and the EMTs about having an affair, giving CPR, having cancer and MS, not being able to get her out of the bathtub and insisted on the plastic surgery, the drugs, over medicated her once and told his kids to get rid of the medications and bloody wet clothes will be a big deal to them. Ada, Alexis and Dr, Perper seem to be the witnesses they are interested in. They prove the prosecutions case so I am not worried in the least.

        • Observer, I am not Mormon so I appreciate your feedback on those details.

          Gypsy’s parents were on After Dark earlier in the week, the day Mrs Willis testified. I don’t remember everything from that interview. Mrs Willis was raving about how smart Gypsy was as a child and in nursing school. Mr Willis was asked if he thought Gpysy was a bad influence on Martin or vice versa. Mr Willis stated that he thought Martin was the bad influence and put pressure on Gypsy, also that he manipulated her without her realizing it. Mrs. Willis stated that she thought she remembered Gypsy telling her that Michele died in Jan of that year probably to make it seem like 6 months would sound better than the reality of 6 weeks. Neither of them were condoning Gypsy’s actions, behavior or crimes during the interview. I’m sure they’re beyond embarrassed and they come across as very professional, nothing like their daughter. When Spencer brought it up in court yesterday about his wife seeing Mrs Willis on HLN, he said that she testified in court that Martin was the one who told her Michele had passed away therefore she had lied. Personally I don’t remember what she testified to in court regarding who told her Michele passed away. I wouldn’t see it as a lie because she wasn’t asked on the show who told her first. It sounds more like Spencer’s desperation because they did look defeated yesterday. As a matter of fact, Martin got quite pale and had his hand over his face for a while.

          Regarding the phenergan, it was prescribed as a suppository, not an enema. I suspect he may have talked her into taking the phenergan and put the other pills into food or drink. There was such a short window of time to get this done, he had his ways. If the inmates said something about an enema, that could be related to something I thought I heard Dr Perper say. I missed about 30 minutes of his testimony so I can’t say for sure what was said, if anything, about that.

          Regarding the potential verdict, believe me, I do think the state has proved its case, I was just saying that you never know what a jury will decide. I think it’s only natural that people are nervous while waiting for a verdict, for good reason.

          PS Dr Randle, Thank you for allowing us to post these comments off topic about the MacNeill case.

    • Observer I think you hit the nail on the head. Dr Perper was vey convincing. if Michele was draped over the tub there would be know reason Martin could not have pulled her out. I am smaller then she was but know I could have got her out. Put your arms around waist and pull. Only the top 1/2 of her had to come out of the water. Yes very strange that the other 3 people plus Ada said she was lying in the tub. Until today I thought he would be found not guilty but after Dr Perper testified today I feel the jury will think about position in the tub and also drowning. This may have just sealed it.

    • Observer, First, thank you for outlining aspects of this trial, & in such detail. Although I watch the trial, you help to bring all back in focus. I watched the testimony of Dr. Perper. It is my feeling that he was pivotal in turning this case over to the Prosecution. But it was not easy. Hopefully the jury listened to his detailed forensics, lab results, tissue slides, etc. He is soft-spoken but does manage to very subtly hit with a punch. I feel he DID show Michelle was drowned…& for sure he *implanted in the jury’s mind she was drugged (& not by her own doing). It was heart-breaking & so chilling to hear him say Michelle’s forensics was on a basis that she could have been held under the water given her her lungs & stomach filled with such a great amount of water, 1/2 liter…& he said inhaled! As for the Defense, Randall Spencer pounding & hounding Dr. Perper. I feel this worked against the Defense. Yes, they needed to cross-examine, but as Spencer has a tendency to do, he put words in Dr. Perper’s mouth that were never said, & Dr. Perper caught Spencer on this. Dr. Perper consistently kept his calm & professionalism & stayed on tract. I watched MacNeil & his female attorney Susanne Gustin throughout Dr. Perper’s l-o-n-g testimony & cross-exam. At the end, MacNeil, usually straight-faced & “stoic,” appeared frightened, & Gustin defeated. She was slumped in her chair with her head in her hand. MacNeil had his mouth open…I don’t think this was feigned. I would think that the consensus NOW is Michelle was in the tub, face-up. And Ada would be believed. Of course she would have been influenced to some extent by her family’s talk of her mother’s death, after all these years. However, she gave a child’s, an innocent’s nuts & bolts of finding her mother. Eyes open. One could visualize this would be face-up. Also, her mother wetting her hair. Again, Ada did not really know her mother was dead. She saw Mommy as before, *IN the tub, bathing, wetting her hair. And the neighbors said Michelle was face/body up in the tub, pulled her out. Then, there was no way MacNeil could have given CPR in the tub, no flat, hard surface under her. Then there was all the water coming out of Michelle’s lungs/stomach when the neighbors helped with CPR….further showing MacNeil did not give CPR. For if he did, of course, most this water would have been out already. And the male neighbor did hint that maybe MacNeil was NOT doing his part blowing air into Michelle’s lungs as the neighbor did chest compressions. The neighbor could not really see. And then MacNeil was continuing to rant & rave at Michelle for having plastic surgery, as all the others were trying to save her. This is a circumstantial case. But I would be shocked if the jury does not find MacNeil guilty. There appears to be enough eye witness, scientific evidence to convict him. Years before, this intimidating doctor/lawyer with a perfect family was protected in this small, close-knit community, as so frequently happens. But now the evil psychopath will pay his dues. And just think what he would continue to do if set free? He has a life history of deceit, abuse, crime…murder…& I wonder how MacNeil’s brother fared…& Doctor MacNeil’s patients!

      • Dawn, what a beautiful post. Thanks for having the same faith I do in the justice system.

        You filled in what I missed. I taped Perpers testimony on HLN so I can fast forward through all the commercials and blabbing and just watch the testimony. I haven’t watched Spencer’s cross so I didn’t see the defeated looks on MacNeill’s and Gustin’s faces. I will go back and watch it.

        The defense is desperately trying to keep out any evidence that proves MacNeill is guilty. They tried to keep out Ada’s interrogation because she is adorable, innocent and believable and she said her mother was lying in the tub wearing the same blue pantsuit as Rachel found bloody and wet in the garage. This pantsuit is part of the evidence.

        Spencer also tried unsuccessfully to strike Alexis testimony that she got her mother’s medical records because she believed her father killed her mother. Spencer also failed in trying to prove Alexis a liar by giving Rachel a reference on her admission to medical school but Alexis proved she was so honest she admitted her mistake and said she did act as a nanny for her little sisters. She also managed to sneak in that her father asked her to leave the house two days after the funeral. The jurors know that’s because she was questioning him. Whenever anyone in his family questioned MacNeill, he wanted them gone. Michelle questioned him about his mistress so he had to get rid of her.

        His yelling and screaming at the 911 operator, EMTS and doctors in the emergency room who were attempting to save his wife’s life proves he has an anger management problem. Samantha also managed to sneak in that her father left her and her sisters with a family in California and Alex went to get them. Alexis testified that she got custody of Ada, El and Samantha shortly after her mother’s death. That shows he was getting rid of his wife and children to be with his mistress.

        I hope the inmates are allowed to testify about Martin calling Michelle a bitch because he told everyone of them that and that shows he hated her because she dared question his infidelity. Drew Peterson and other men who murdered their wives referred to them afterwards as a bitch.

        I also hope the one inmate is able to testify that Martin told him he gave Michelle an enema. That is probably how he got the drugs in her system and may explain why her pants were off and the water was brown. Phenergan, which is for nausea, was administered in an enema. She may have been queasy and thought he was giving her the nausea medicine in the enema. Michelle would never have taken all those drugs on her own or take them from him. He had to give them to her in an enema or in her food.

  15. Martin MacLean sounds like a sociopath/psychopath with conning the Army out of $100,000 by pretending to be schizophrenic, forging a $25,000 check, fabricating college transcripts to get into medical and law school, abandoning an adopted daughter in the Eukraine and changing her birth date on her birth certificate so his mistress could use her social security number, manufacturing documents using his wife’s funeral date as his wedding date to his mistress and telling a former mistress that he tried to murder his mother by overdosing her on drugs when he was eight, drowned his brother in the bathtub and murdered patients with drug overdoses.

    He reminds me of a law professor who wrote an article “Confessions of a Sociopath” in Psychology Today. Like Martin MacNeill the sociopath law professor graduated from law school, is well respected in her community and taught Sunday School in the LDS church. MacNeill also told his friend, family and church members that he had MS and cancer and had six months to live. They believed him because they were taught to be honest.

    This law professor/confessed sociopath wrote: “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is a sociopath’s dream. Mormons believe that everyone has the potential to be godlike—I believe this includes me. Every being is capable of salvation; my actions are what matters, not my ruthless thoughts, not my nefarious motivations. Everyone is a sinner, and I never felt that I was outside this norm. When I attended Brigham Young—where students were even more trusting than the average Mormon—there were myriad opportunities for scamming. I stole from the lost and found, saying I lost a book, but then I would take the “found” book to the bookstore and sell it. Or, I’d take an unlocked bike that sat in the same place for days. Finders, keepers.”

  16. Just as a follow-up on LaViolette’s “What Kind of Abuse Are We Talking About” Oct. 2013 video, I would really like to see Phil Houston do an evaluation on LaViolette’s speech as Nance noted in the beginning of this article.

    I have listened to it in full again and following an interesting article on Domestic Violence in Northern Ireland, I posted the article 3 times with a different comment each time. Here is the article: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/domestic-violence-against-men-at-its-highest-level-in-northern-ireland-since-police-began-recording-statistics-29707051.html

    I noticed that since the video posting, not one comment has been made. Now I know why, they’re being monitored citing pending approval. Need I say more…none have been approved.

  17. On 48 Hours, I just watched a case about a Seattle man who was found guilty Oct. 14 of the 2006 murder of his wife.

    There were many similarities to the Martin MacNeill case. The murderer was also named Martin, his wife was taking percocet and other drugs due to pain, he had grown tired of his wife, was unfaithful, cold and callous, the case was circumstantial, he made odd comments after his wife was dead, the victim’s mother and sister knew he had killed his wife and hounded him and police for years before he was arrested, and he wasn’t arrested until 2012.

    Martin David Pietz, 36, reported his wife Nicole missing, told his in laws he and Nicole hadn’t been wearing their rings, she had begun wearing her mouth guard that she wore at night when she went out and her bottle of Percocet was empty. Two days later Nicole was found in the woods strangled wearing her mouth guard, which indicated to police she was strangled in her bed as she slept.

    At the funeral, Pietz told his mother in law that he didn’t think she would take it that hard. Like Alexis, Gael Schneider, Nicole’s mother made it her mission to bring her son in law to justice.

    This is only an example of the many circumstantial cases I have watched on TV where a husband is found guilty of his wife’s murder. They usually all involve mistresses. This is why I have faith that Alexis, Linda and all of the Somers will get justice for Michelle.

      • Tracy, I don’t listen to reporters or lawyers reporting on the case because it is just speculation.

        In the Jodi Arias case, during deliberations Jean Cesarez kept leading the HLN audience into believing the jurors were fighting and wouldn’t come up with a guilty verdict. Defense attorneys kept saying the defense had proven second degree murder or manslaughter with the accusations that Travis Alexander physically and verbally abused her. None of that was true.

        Since Casey Anthony got away with murder, reporters and attorneys are paranoid that the same thing will happen in all high profile cases. They said that about Drew Peterson and Brett Seacat who both were convicted of killing their wives on circumstantial cases also.

        • Of course it’s speculation, exactly what we are doing, speculating. The girl that runs the blog “court chatter” was on the radio show and a reporter Ben Winslow was the other contributor. There weren’t any lawyers, just 2 people that are sitting in the courtroom, discussing the case as it came out in court. I don’t listen to talking heads that sensationalize these trials. I watched the After Dark show only because Gypsy’s parents were on it and I only watched that portion of the show. I watch the trials online, either through live streaming or you tube to avoid the talking heads.

          Also I’m not sure if you saw my response to your post when you asked about the After Dark show. I posted it the night I was having trouble logging in but I believe it did get posted on Nov 3rd.

          • Yes, Tracy I read your post but with the re-registering problems and being busy I didn’t have a chance to thank you for replying. You always make good points in all of your posts.

            What did you think of the inmates testimony?

            I don’t think the jury will convict MacNeill just based on the testimony of the three inmates who testified today but I believe they provided more pieces to the puzzle. All inmates testified they got no deal for testifying and actually put their lives in danger because in prison code they were snitches.

            Jason Poirier, another former inmate, will testify tomorrow.

            I believe today’s inmate testimony helped the state because they corroborated each other by stating:

            1-MacNeill called Michelle a bitch, which shows he had contempt for his dead wife.
            2-MacNeill lifted weights, jogged and was in good health and good shape, which shows he could have lifted Michelle out of the tub and do CPR, which may have saved her life.
            3-MacNeill said his wife drowned to two inmates and she had a heart attack, which proves he told two different stories.
            4-MacNeill said the state didn’t have the evidence to prove he committed murder, which shows he thinks he can get away with murder.
            5-They met MacNeil in Tex-Arkana Prison, which proves that he is a convicted felon and not the law abiding doctor/lawyer the defense wants the jury to think.
            6- He referred to Gypsy as his wife who was in prison and said he wrote letters to her, which shows he was still lying about his relationship with Gypsy from 2008 to 2012 when he was in federal prison.
            7- MacNeill never said he had cancer or MS, which shows he was pulling a scam on his family, friends and church members.

            Loved it when Inmate 3 testified he met Martin in a “chicken coop” at Tex Arcana Prison. I bet the great doctor and attorney didn’t like being in a “chicken coop” with 18 criminals since he looked down at anyone who didn’t have a law and medical degree. That’s beautiful.

            Even though Spencer got Inmate 3 to admit that he fabricated a hit on a state attorney to get off the compound, he stated the information he gave to police “panned out” and helped law enforcement convict 26 criminals which rehabilitated him in my eyes. I believed his testimony because what he said was corroborated by the other two inmates and he seemed to look up to MacNeill because he was a doctor and worked out like he did.

          • To Observer, I am laughing now…the “chicken coup!” And when I heard this earlier today on TV from the inmate on the stand, I could just imagine “Doc” being in there. But I bet MacNeil didn’t have a hard time dealing with others in the “coup.” A sociopath can work anything to their advantage. And It was almost missed, kind of cut off by the Prosecution, but one of the inmates describing MacNeil, “Doc,” said he had no problems with MacNeil, they got a long. However, I do believe I heard the inmate say others were afraid of MacNeil…then the inmate was cut off…I don’t know on purpose by the Prosecution, or not. Anyway, no big blasts from the inmates today. But they said similar things. Maybe more credible as their were no “bombshells,” for expample, if MacNeil described how he killed Michelle. No, they were low-key enough to help them be believable. Just more bits & pieces for the Prosecution to make the puzzle more of a finished picture.

          • Tracy, I am more interested in the evidence that we get about Martin MacLean’s life than guessing what the jury is thinking. I thought it was interesting that Martin MacNeill told the inmates that Michelle was a bitch and Gypsy was his wife. To me that speaks volumes to his guilt. A man who has contempt for his wife years after she is dead and still obsessed with his mistress for years after his wife’s death most likely killed her to get what he wanted: Gypsy Willis. He was willing to kill, steal and do prison time for his slutty mistress. I thought it was funny that Inmate No. 3 described Gypsy from a picture as the “heavy set woman with long dark hair.” Alexis said when she and her mother found out Martin was calling a woman named Gypsy they wondered if she was a stripper. Nobody seems to understand why Martin would murder his beautiful wife of 30 years and the mother of his eight children for the fat, ugly slut. Maybe, it is because Gypsy is a psychopath like him.

      • Ah…the old gaolhouse snitch is ‘risking his life’ in the McNeill case, eh? And what reliance can be placed on his evidence? A big,fat zero – that’s all.
        The use of the ‘snitch’ in evidence is nothing much more than an insult to the intelligence of a jury – the prosecution knows that his testimony is, at the very best, highly unreliable, and is only really indicative of a weak prosecution case. If this prosecution is using three or four of them, their testimony, in total, will still add up to zero – and you can bet your bottom dollar that they will demand anonymity in fear of their lives, which, of course, is just further nonsense to go with their testimony.
        The ‘snitch’ – known in Australian gaolhouse parlance as a ‘dog’ – is the lowest of the low in prison and is simply ostracized by his fellow inmates, who couldn’t care less that he is testifying against someone else in the prison where it’s a dog eat dog existence and the only one that matters is ‘No 1′. Other inmates couldn’t give a hoot about another inmate testifying in court – unless it concerns No 1 – and the ‘snitch’ is only doing so to gain some sort of an advantage for himself, such as a reduction in sentence and will say or do anything if such a chance exists.
        Why would McNeill tell other inmates that he had committed a murder that couldn’t be proven – and why would the inmate see fit to reveal that conversation… in the interests of justice???
        The ‘snitch’ was also used in the recent David Camm trial where the prosecution only had highly contentious blood stain evidence against Camm which was refuted by other specialists in the field, including overseas experts. So they produced a ‘snitch’. Can you imagine a man who had spent 13 years in prison and faced three trials protesting his innocence, suddenly confiding to another inmate giving him a tattoo that he had indeed wiped out his own family?
        Well, you never know. If these prosecutors keep resorting to the use of gaolhouse snitches, perhaps we’ll see Jodi testifying against another inmate one day – if they can ever get her sentenced, that is!!

        • To those commenting on the MacNeill trial, I have posted a new topic under the MacNeill trial on Dr Randle’s new forum. Once it’s moderated and posted you will be able to see it and respond.

          Thanks again Dr Randle :)

          • You are welcome Tracy. Also, the moderated comments will only be temporary (yours is posted). After a few posts, they’ll all automatically show. Thanks for using the forum!

  18. Dr. Randle, anybody HELP! OK, a couple of days ago, I like others, had trouble logging into the blogs, like here. Then came the new Forums. I eventually was able to register & log on. Just now I went to the Forum & to my surprise found my name, password, was not working. So I needed to REGISTER again! So I did. New password & all. Then came the final question for spam or to check if I was from outer space. It was “Confirmation of Registration: question: “What fruit makes the iPad? I don’t own an iPad. However I gave a guess & I tried to find out the “fruit,” or whatever. Nothing worked & I “timed-out” & could not register. Tried again to no avail. If anyone else is having problems &/or knows the answer to FRUIT please-let-me-know. Because I don’t know the “What FRUIT maks the iPad?” answer. I don’t know if this is me, if I am missing something here? I have never experienced anything like this on a web site. This is like getting a pass from Scotland Yard or FBI…. Thank you. (Yes, I am upset but laughing at the “fruit” stuff:)

      • Thank you Dr. Randle, Of course “Apple” was the 1st fruit I tried. I do own an “Apple” computer & know Apple & iPad. “Apple” did not work. I will try again. I do have patience. I know it will all work out. :):):) I thank YOU DR. Randle for YOUR patience. TY

  19. Oh Dawn, I feel your frustration but have to tell you your post has me in stitches, you’re so funny!!!

    I went through the same thing, although I didn’t have the question, I just had to decipher some letters and numbers. I’ll tell you what I think is going on here, the forum must has a different site handling it, not WordPress therefore the reason you have to set up a new account. Your password from the blog won’t work on the forum (unless you create it to be the same) because it’s a separate site. I’m not that computer literate, I just went through the same steps you did and conquered it so thought I’d share. Good luck to you getting on the forum.

    • That is it exactly, Tracy. It is another site and not wordpress thus meaning a new and difference user name and password is required. Glad you were able to get on the forum and back on the blog!

      • I tried again & still cannot register. In red says “I am timed out.” So I will give it a couple of hours or wait until tomorrow. But good news is I can READ the forum comments…Tracy & Observer! Tracy, I too am laughing…actually got tears in my eyes. But all is well, sitting here in the Buddhist Lotus position, meditating on it…thinking of my fav fruit, mangoes…or is it pineapple…um… Never mind, now need to watch, oh yes, Nancy Grace’s take on the “doc” ~ ~

        • Dawn, I’m sorry to say you *might* need to try to get in with another email address if it timed you out for good. Darn, so sorry you’re having this trouble with the fruit selection. I know the answer to that is apple so why is that robot messing with you, ugh! You’re a good sport in any case!

          Thank you Dr Randle for clarifying that, it was an educated guess on my part. Yes, I got on the forum and back on the blog but I don’t dare sign out for fear of never getting back in ;)

          Ta-ta for now.

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