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+--- Thread: End is Near Hopefully (/thread-1.html)
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RE: End is Near Hopefully - NERN - 03-11-2015
Observer, I know you were answering Duluth but I wanted to say that I agree, your thoughts are a possibility.
Do we know that #17 remains in an abusive relationship with her current husband? do we know that he controls her actions and thoughts?
It is also my understanding that if one mitigating factor is relevant in a juror's mind, then voting for the DP is taken off the table for that juror. This seems to be the case with #17 in that she felt Arias' mental health was an issue.
I always had it in my mind that mental health could be the only mitigating factor that could sway deliberations for one or even more of the jurors.
It is obvious that this was the stumbling block. All other mitigation factors were dismissed by the jury.
Yes, jurors are to have an open mind and listen to others during deliberations. They must also think independently and not be made to feel that they must change their minds if that is what they believe in the case.. That is the law and the instructions given by the judge.
Unfortunately for #17, the other 11 jurors were all in agreement and obviously upset that she stood her ground.
Because of her decision, she is becoming a huge scapegoat for everyone for not agreeing and giving Arias the verdict everyone wanted. She is being called a liar, a person with a hidden agenda, biased from the onset and should never have been on the jury. No juror should have to go into hiding because they made the unpopular decision.
RE: End is Near Hopefully - Observer - 03-11-2015
The fact that Juror No. 17 did not participate in the press conference to explain her decision to hang the jury and the fact that she called the police and asked for protection when she did not receive any credible threats to her life indicates she is not someone who is willing to stand up for what she believed.
The other jurors did not give their names or show their faces but they were not afraid to explain to the press and public how they felt and their frustrations in deliberations.
People may be angry at her but she didn't receive any death threats or someone would have been arrested and in jail.
If that were me and I strongly believed in my convictions, I would have stood there with the other jurors and faced questions from the press as to the allegations against her.
I would not be cowering in my house and allowing 11 other jurors to say I had an agenda if I did not.
Arias and her witnesses used the excuse of worrying about what the media and social media are saying about them and imaginary death threats to keep them from speaking out also.
If you speak the truth and have nothing to hide, you are not afraid to face the media and public.
RE: End is Near Hopefully - duluth45 - 03-11-2015
Did Juror 17 tell the court that she is in an abusive relationship with her current husband? I didn't really listen to much of that. I don't think abused spouses tell this type of stuff in courtrooms being picked for the jury or in the grocery store or the doctor's office. They tend to deny that they are abused, whether because of fear or denial in their own minds. I just have a hard time thinking that this juror would be so controlled by the husband that she would vote his way rather than her own. It is possible, I guess, but if that is the case, I see her going home in the evenings telling the husband what happened (you aren't supposed to talk about the trial to anyone) and letting him convince her that Arias was abused and shouldn't be held responsible for her deed. In other words, he would be telling her that what Arias did was okay and that alone would open up the possibility that Juror 17 would be excused if she did the same thing to her husband, an alleged abuser. I still am betting that Juror 17 has Arias tendencies and admires her. I think her mind was made up before the trial took place and when she got picked, she voted how she did vote because she felt akin to Arias. But we will just agree to disagree.
Nern, if Juror 17 lied, she should be outed. You really are supposed to be honest during that procedure. I am glad that it wasn't the death sentence because Arias would be in the news for years to come, and hopefully with life, she will fade away like bad thoughts are supposed to. And you are right that there is still too much crap coming out because of her and that she is loving every minute of her importance. Arias will always be able to control some people whether it is Juror 17 or the foreman in the first trial or two 15 year olds. That is just the way it is with this kind. They have a power over certain types of people and she will continue to have power over these types even in prison.
RE: End is Near Hopefully - NERN - 03-11-2015
I am a firm believer that if you are strong in your beliefs, you WILL stand up for them.
I was not sitting in the jury deliberating room however, and if it was as full of tension, on behalf of the 11 and of 1, AND I had made an unpopular decision, I would not speak out immediately. Receiving hate and other disparaging comments on the heels of deliberations during a press conference is something I would not participate in. The public was outraged, as it seems the 11 jurors were and I would not subject myself to the harassment that I would receive by going public immediately.
Being on the jury in a case like this takes it all out of you I am sure. Some handle it one way, some another.
Having said this, I WOULD eventually speak out if I still held these strong beliefs.
Duluth -
I have no idea what was said during the questioning of prospective jurors. Most of us do not.
And that is exactly why I cannot speculate or make assumptions.
I also have no idea if #17 identified with Arias. None of us do.
and that is another reason for my stance.
For me to say that Arias will not try to have power over other inmates would be naïve of me.
But in all that I have learned over the years of watching and reading issues surrounding the prison system, her arrogance will not be tolerated. Her air of superiority will not be tolerated. She may fool a few but eventually she will be outed for who she is.
If the whole world, or at least those who have diligently followed this case can see Arias for who and what she is, I am rest assured that inmates will do the same. After all, they all have some arrogance in their positions within the prison and the strong win. Arias is not that strong - she, in her mind, is a victim. That and she has not been successful to date and has not won.
RE: End is Near Hopefully - Observer - 03-11-2015
Duluth, Juror No. 17 stated in jury selection that she was a victim of domestic violence. That is one of the questions they asked the jurors in the questionnaire because Arias was alleging domestic violence as a mitigating factor. She didn't lie because there is probably police records to prove it. I agree with you that she had an agenda before she got on that jury. I also agree that she believed Arias claims of domestic abuse and sympathized with her because she was a victim of domestic violence. She also identified with Arias because she too read The Secret and believed in the Law of Attraction. I also believe she would have eventually listened to reason and voted for death if she had not been supported in her stand against death for Arias by her husband.
I took psychology classes on dysfunctional relationships and battered wives syndrome and worked as a volunteer counselor in a battered woman's program.
Here is what I learned:
Battered women are so beaten down by their abusers that they believe it is their fault and allow other people to think for them and make choices for them. They usually end up leaving one abuser to get involved with another because they have a low self image and don't trust their decisions or choices. Abusers control every aspect of their mates life and tell them what to think and what to do. Her first husband was violent and she divorced him because he has been in jail for 23 years for violent crimes. Her second husband has been out of prison for four years. She chose another convicted felon which indicates to me she only divorced her first husband because he was in prison. If she was looking for a man who was the opposite, she wouldn't have chosen another convicted felon. Her behavior of wanting to get out of that jury room as soon as the first vote was taken before an deliberations, her telling the judge the other jurors were intimidating her and hiding from the press and the public saying she fears for her life, sounds exactly like she suffers from Battered Wives Syndrome which means her husband was encouraging her to get on that jury and hang it and hang in there until she did.
Troy Hayden is reporting that they are trying to move up the sentencing to the end of this month because of all the Arias fans trying to video chat with her. She is advising them on how to break the law and bragging about all the giant candy bars she gets to buy from all the money her fans are sending her for the commissary.
There is no reason to delay the sentencing because Arias waived a pre-sentencing report and it will not be done so all the judge has to do is hold a hearing and listen to statements from both families and attorneys on why she should be sentenced to either LWOP or Life with a possible release after 25 years.
RE: End is Near Hopefully - Lunarscope - 03-11-2015
Jodi requested not to be transported to prison after the Verdict, and her request was granted, so the judge can keep her schedule' and just have Jodi transported from jail to prison without waiting for the hearing! When the hearing takes place Jodi will be there!
Shariff Joe exposed his lack of control over Jodi' by tweeting about her 10 followers and Out came that Jodi had 27 calls (20 minute max) on Saturday, he cannot recover from his own words and It couldn't have happened to a more worthy official, busted for lack of control measures that resulted in child endangerment, watch out come election time, if he lasts that long!
Jodi followers have all the Web of Travis supporters informing their web addresses and importance, JII only has R Love quoting scripture, JII is done but their are many splinter groups that collect money while spewing hate and revenge, its all history hidden in JII secret private rooms and vent rooms, only if authorities gather that compilation can Jodi followers be curtailed. If not JII will regroup' in time!
RE: End is Near Hopefully - duluth45 - 03-11-2015
But Observer, WHY would an abuser husband want his abused wife to hang the jury so that "abused" Arias wouldn't get the death penalty? I don't see his point. But. I don't see the point in lots of things. And that won't change at this late date. Just so that he could prove to himself that he had total control over her? Would that be the point? Still there is that idea that if abused Arias could do it, possibly his abused wife could do it to him. Or maybe how I view the world is so different from so many people. Probably most people would think you are right on, Observer, and that my viewpoint is weird. But still that's how I see it.
I know about some domestic violence cases here where I live and yes, they do tend to hook back up with the same type for some psychological need. A woman who works at our local shelter told me once that it takes sometimes 12 or 17 (I don't remember the number now) bad beatings for a woman to actually get the strength to finally make the move to leave. I know of a woman who had to go to the hospital because her husband broke her arm badly and she was so nervous and worried and said she had to get back home quickly to fix supper or he would be mad. And I'm sure that many women stay for their entire lives, no matter how many times they are beaten to a pulp. It is a total mystery to me.
As usual, Arias is messing with our minds. When will it end? Hopefully for me in a few days.
I don't know why the judge couldn't have sentenced the murderer that day. That must be a law in Arizona that makes it impossible to sentence on the day of the verdict. Here's a thought - Arizona needs to change some of the laws maybe. I won't be surprised at all if the sentencing doesn't happen on April 13 because the judge has the right to change that date at will.
RE: End is Near Hopefully - Observer - 03-11-2015
Lunarscope, Jodi Arias cannot be transported to Perryville until she is sentenced.
No convicted murderer has the right to decide when she is transported to a prison.
After the hung jury, the judge said "Let's proceed to sentencing" and Nurmi said Arias requests sentencing be in 30 days. She also waived her right to a pre-sentencing report.
I thought the 30 day delay was to give Nurmi a chance to file a motion asking that the judge overturn the verdict but I don't believe that can be done until after the judge sentences Arias.
Now I believe Arias wanted the 30 day delay to continue with her video chats with all her fans for 30 days. Now that there will be no pre-sentence report, they don't need to delay the sentencing 30 days.
They just need to find the soonest date on the calendar that will fit with the scheduling of the attorneys and the families of Alexander and Arias.
RE: End is Near Hopefully - Lunarscope - 03-11-2015
Thanks Observer, I didn't know what happened after the hung jury verdict!
And the Alexander's deserve to speak-up on record, of which I hope theirs no restrictions whatsoever!
I was under the understanding that Jodi should have been in Prison a long time ago!
RE: End is Near Hopefully - Observer - 03-11-2015
Duluth, the husband is a convicted felon and Arias is a convicted felon. Most convicted felons believe they were wrongly convicted and blame the cops and the prosecutors for their being incarcerated so he would support any convicted felon especially one who says she was wrongly convicted and it's all the victims fault and the cop's fault and the prosecutors fault. He would be against the death penalty because he is a criminal and that means he could get the death penalty. Being a battered wife, Juror No. 17 would believe like her husband does. If he is against the death penalty and favoring the convicted felon, she would be against the death penalty and favor the convicted felon. Convicted felons cannot serve on juries but his wife could.