Crime & Trial Discussion Forums

Nurmi has been using the kitchen sink defense, argue anything and everything possible' only one topic that convinces is needed, he started this trial phase with Jodi may have shot Travis in the shower and he used the Jodi is a habitual lier argument today, theirs nothing that he will not argue' it all stuffs his bank account!

When latest news stories are read the headlines and main topic are "this trial will last longer than the last trial" Nurmi gave Martinez some trial time and its back to delay delay delay, next step will be news reports saying how much more than 3 million has been spent for a seak of (Nurmi's words) Death Penalty conviction against a first offender who deserves time served! Jodi has tasted blood and can never resist slaughtering again' 7 years of character Slaughtering gives Jodi enjoyment!

Where Nern said' The Jury is not stupid,  (a list) two posts back! I hope Martinez is allowed to use the action of Jodi lying to the first Jury when answering their question, nothing else in comparison equats the dramatic impact as when Martinez exposed the bold faced lie!

Prosecution’s witnesses testimony in case for the death penalty in a nutshell:

Dr. Kevin Horne: Travis Alexander suffered 11 stab wounds to his upper back between the shoulder blades, two stab wounds to the top and back of his head, one stab wound to the back of his neck and ear, four stab wounds to the heart and chest, three stab wounds to the belly, one stab wound across the throat, which severed the right carotid artery and airway, five defensive wounds to the hands and one single gunshot wound to the head.

He was killed three times over. Either the stab to the heart, the slit throat or the bullet in the brain could have killed him. He was alive when the knife was plunged into his heart and his throat was slit but he was dead when the bullet was fired into his brain. He suffered excruciating pain for two minutes.

Detective Estevan Flores: Bloody Arias palm print on bathroom wall matches that of Jodi Arias and the blood is a mixture of Jodi Arias and Travis Alexander’s blood. Bullet casing found lying on top of blood came from a .25 caliber gun just like the gun stolen in a burglary at the home of Jodi Arias grandparents where she was living. Arias’ hair was found in the shower. Pictures were found on Travis Alexander’s camera of Arias naked and Travis Alexander naked and pictures of Alexander taken seconds before and while he was being stabbed to death, which place Arias at the scene.

Yreka Detective – Arias grandfather reported a burglary at his home a week before the murder and the only item stolen was a .25 caliber gun identical to the one Arias used to shoot Travis Alexander a week later.

Ryan Byrnes- Arias called him a week before the murder and said she was coming to visit him in Salt Lake City. She left June 3 and he had no communication with her for 20 hours until she showed up at his house June 5. She was stopped by a cop because her license plates in back were upside down. She wore band aides to cover two cuts on her fingers. She grinded with him and appeared normal.

Rental car agent – Arias rented a car 100 miles from her home with blonde hair and returned it with the floor mats missing and a red stain.

Darrell Brewer- Arias called him a week before the murder and asked to borrow two gas cans and picked them up on her way to kill Travis Alexander.

Wal-Mart employee – Arias bought a gas can at a Salinas. CA store but never returned it.

Bishop Vernon Parker – There was no kiddy porn on his computer and Travis Alexander was not responsible for pop ups of scantily clad women similar to ads you see in a J.C. Penny catalogue and did not live in his house when a defense witness claims he confessed to being sexually abused as a child and to being responsible for putting kiddy porn on the bishop’s computer.

Deanna Reid- Travis Alexander never put his hands on her in an offensive way and she never met Marc McGee who said in an affidavit he witnessed Travis Alexander curse and yell at Deanna, knee her in the stomach and hurt her wrist.

Dr. Janeen DeMarte – Jodi Arias has a pattern of pursuing men, stalking them when they try to leave her, has a fear of abandonment and bursts of angry violence, gets involved with men too quickly and then devalues them and she devalued Travis Alexander by murdering him. She never reported any child abuse to any of the several psychologists who evaluated her and she told conflicting stories about domestic violence abuse and there is no evidence that she was ever abused by Travis Alexander.

Defense’s witness statements for mitigation:

Jodi Arias – She killed Travis Alexander and only lied to the police, friends, family and the media and denied killing Travis Alexander for two years because she couldn’t face that she had committed this horrific crime and she wishes she could do that day over again. It isn’t her fault because her mean mother beat her with a wooden spoon and smoked pot the day she was born and her violent father used cocaine, beat her with a belt and threw her against a wall and Travis Alexander cheated on her.

Dr. Miccio-Fonseca- Jodi Arias killed Travis Alexander because unrequited love leads to homicide. She wanted love. He just wanted sex. Travis Alexander had a jeckyl and hyde personality – T Dog and Travis Alexander. Jodi Arias “suffered in silence.”

Dr. Robert Geffner – Jodi Arias does not have a personality disorder. She has PTSD. Travis Alexander used and abused her and she was just after love and cuddles. Coworkers said she was a wonderful employee. A friend of Travis Alexander’s says Alexander confessed to him he was molested as a child and the child porn on the bishop’s computer was his. Carl, Arias brother, said that their father beat them with a belt and a friend of Carl’s said he witnessed Bill Arias throw Carl against a refrigerator.

John Smith, computer expert – There was porn on Travis Alexander’s computer.

The jury is charged with determining if the mitigators outweigh the aggravators.

It seems to me the state’s aggravators weighs a ton where the defense’s mitigators are light as a feather.

If the jurors do their job, death row is a very strong possibility.

https://www.facebook.com/JuanMartinezProsecutorSupportPage/posts/348873818639534

http://kristinarandle.com/blog/can-borderline-personality-disorder-spare-jodi-arias-from-the-death-penalty/

The above are 2 more excellent reads following this week's testimony by DeMarte.

I am stepping away from talking about the trial and Arias for a bit.
This is something that is playing on my mind.
It concerns the Alexander Family.

Please note that I stand firmly behind the Alexander family and their fight for justice for their brother Travis.

2008 to the present - almost 7 years - a very long time.
It is a very long time to want the ultimate punishment for someone who slaughtered a family member.

As we have heard twice in victim impact statements, it has taken a heavy toll on the family. But they persevere.
I admire their resolve.

What worries me to a degree is if the ultimate punishment does not come to fruition and Arias receives LWOP.

How will the Alexander family handle the grave disappointment, their fury at Arias for "beating the rap"
and the feeling that justice was not served for Travis?

Everyone wants the Alexander family to have their lives back. Everyone wants some form of closure for the family so they can move forward for their future.

What further toll will a possible verdict of LWOP take on them?

I would like to think that with their closeness as a family, the support of others, their faith and not wanting Arias to have the feeling that she won will all come to bear to accept a sentence of LWOP. It would not happen overnight as almost 7 years of living with wanting the DP is not easy to let go of.

Worrisome for me.

Nern, thanks for the links to Dr. KR's excellent article on whether BPD can save Arias from the needle and Paul Sander's recap of yesterday's proceedings.

I perfectly understand your need to step away from the retrial because it is emotionally draining but I hope you will be back soon because I will miss your posts. You and I have been the most consistent posters since Dr. KR started the crime and trial discussion board.

Don't worry about the Alexander family. They have a strong faith in God and Jesus Christ and whatever the jury decides will be closure for them. With her on death row or locked up for life, they will be finally able to go on with their life.

Duluth, I'm glad you found us. I hope you will contribute, especially now that Nern is gone. Justice, Lunarscope and Justjrep I hope you will continue to post and the new members who just joined but haven't posted yet, I look forward to your posts.

The state's rebuttal case is almost over. Detective Smith, the Mesa Police forensic computer guy, will testify that there was no porn on the computer until the defense idiot installed Spy Bott on the hard drive as soon as Nurmi finishes with DeMarte. Nurmi said he will be presenting a surrebuttal case and said he intends to call Dr. Fonesca, Dr. Geffner, Abe Abdehaldi and Deanna Reid back to the stand.

Since the state's own psychiatrist is the only witness presenting any evidence of any mitigating factor, if he was smart Nurmi would just forget the victim bashing again which works against him and let Dr. DeMarte prove his case of mental illness. Then call the Princess to present her Power Presentation like she is a CEO of a multi million dollar corporation instead of a former waitress turned convicted murderer.

But the way Jodi Arias insists on explaining away everything that shows her in a negative light, this retrial may go on and on forever.

Sorry Observer, I guess I didn't word my post so well. I was only stepping away from talking about the trial in my post - not permanently. Cannot get rid of me I am afraid! LOL

I just wanted to make my comments about the Alexander family. I understand that they have their faith to support them and I admire that.
But they are human as well and living with a goal for so long and being so adamant that they want Arias to die for her crime is a heavy burden. Like it or not, LWOP is a possible sentence.
I like to think that they will comes to terms with a sentence such as that over time. Arias would be locked away for the rest of her natural life even as she tries to get out through appeals.
Faith is a strong motivator and support but like I said, they are human as well. The fallout of comments that will flood social media by those who also wanted a DP sentence will be hard to ignore for them.

Anyway, it was just a concern to discuss and as it is the law in Arizona, I support their desire to see a DP sentence for Arias.

No matter what Geffner or Fonesca have to say when they are called back, DeMarte successfully discredited them by using truth and facts. These 2 "experts" essentially just corroborated Samuels and LaViolette's testimonies and brought nothing "new" into the mix. And we know that Samuels and LaViolette opinions were rejected in the first trial and ultimately Arias was convicted of all charges.
Nurmi will bring in "years of experience" by the two of them to counter DeMarte's.
He cannot dispute that the tests given to Arias were not honest and that she was "lead" to answer what they wanted.

Abe and Deanna will not cower or bend to anything that Nurmi throws at them. They have the advantage of being honest and truthfull.
Nurmi will go back to all the smut once again because he has nothing else to attack with.
The only reason that I see for them being called again is to embarrass and try to annihilate their testimonies BECAUSE Arias is furious and wants another stab at them, especially Deanna, because she hates her that much.

The only thing he will accomplish is to delay, delay and delay again. The Omnibus hearing is yet to take place and he will delay as long as he can.

By the way, has there been any news on the two motions by the defense (Arias) to preclude the state's two witnesses - the Detective and DeMarte?

Glad to hear that Nern. I panicked for a minute because you and I are the most constant posters and this thread would not be the same without you.

I had never seen this video by the 48 Hours reporter who interviewed Jodi Arias for the first time right after she was arrested and in Yreka jail in July 2008. I find it interesting she is wearing street clothes and not prison garb. He says she really enjoyed being interviewed, insisted on putting on makeup, instructed the cameramen to stop if her forehead got shiny and told him the male Ninja put a gun to her head and it misfired where she told Flores he simply took her driver's license information, said I know where you live and let her go.

If this isn't a classic example of the narcissistic psychopath Borderline Personality Disorder I don't know what is. She is charming, cunning, manipulative and smiles so sweetly and innocently. Here she has just been arrested for first degree murder and she acts like she is a movie star or model and like the reporter said she is certainly loves the camera even as they show her putting on her makeup.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJ49rzxe8Qo

Kristina Randle wrote an excellent article about why Borderline Personality Disorder does not mitigate the death penalty for JA!

From Day 1 of this retrial, Nurmi has portrayed JA as mentally ill -- but even with DeMarte's diagnosis of BPD, that does not equal a Get-Out-Of-Death-Row-Free Card. Personality Disorders are common in people who perpetuate crimes and, unlike major mental illnesses like schizophrenia, do not mitigate the crime. In fact, Death Row is full of convicted killers who have Antisocial Personality Disorder. For another explanation of the attempt to use BPD as mitigation against a death penalty, check out this article on the Aileen Wournos trial, where the jury ruled BPD was a mitigating factor, but she was still given the Death Penalty.

http://www.capitalpunishmentincontext.org/issues/mentalillness

JA skillfully planned and carried out this murder, so impulsivity and any "disassociative states" due to BPD do not mitigate the premeditation and extreme cruelty.

Hi Gan,
Welcome!

Thanks for the link. Very interesting.

There is no question in my mind and hopefully in the minds of the jury that Arias, despite a diagnosis of BPD, methodically and with calculation, premeditated her plan, slaughtered Travis and then with the same methodical actions, tried to cover it up.

As you say, it is common for people with BPD to commit crimes but I would venture to guess that it is also common that those with this very same diagnosis do not.

Aileen Wournos had a horrendous growing up, that has been proven.
Arias SAYS she had a bad childhood, abused, had drug using parents and she was not validated in any way by her family but the "proof is in the pudding" as I have said before and it has been emphatically proven that she is lying.

Arias has been convicted of Premeditated First Degree Felony Murder with Extreme Cruelty. This is an obvious fact. But apparently it is not obvious to the defense (Arias) as they continue to retry their case.
The only difference in this trial from the last is they are no longer using self defense and DV but rather trying to prove that Arias is mentally ill and should not be put to death.

Not only did they make a mockery of DV victims in the first trial, they now are doing the same for those who do suffer from mental illness issues. Once again, Arias is mistakenly and with pure gall aligning herself with disadvantaged (for lack of a better word) people. This absolutely enrages me.

By definition, yes, I guess you could say that Arias' BPD diagnosis is a mental illness.

But by pure virtue of her horrible crime , her planning, execution and cover-up, is not evidence of a mental illness that incapacitated her and absolves her from receiving the ultimate punishment under Arizona law. The weight of this mitigation factor coming from the defense is nil when compared to the mountain of evidence the State has and still has to present.

Welcome Gan. Thanks for the link. I did not know Aileen Wuornos was diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder. When I saw videos of her with her eyes bugging out and hallucinating, she appeared to be insane and if she can be executed, Arias, whom one of the dismissed jurors described as appearing "normal" in the courtroom, certainly qualifies for the needle.

I just found a fascinating article on the Borderline Personality's Love Relationships that explains why Travis Alexander might have been drawn in to the web of Jodi Arias. Here's some excerpts to show how much it describes Jodi Arias and her behavior.

Love: The Vulnerable Seducer Phase

At first, a Borderline female may appear sweet, shy, vulnerable and "ambivalently in need of being rescued"; looking for her Knight in Shining Armor.

In the beginning, you will feel a rapidly accelerating sense of compassion because she is a master at portraying herself as the "victim of love" and you are saving her. But listen closely to how she sees herself as a victim. As her peculiar emotional invasion advances upon you, you will hear how no one understands her - except you. Other people have been "insensitive." She has been betrayed, just when she starts trusting people. But there is something "special" about you, because "you really seem to know her."

It is this intense way she has of bearing down on you emotionally that can feel very seductive. You will feel elevated, adored, idealized - almost worshiped, maybe even to the level of being uncomfortable. And you will feel that way quickly. It may seem like a great deal has happened between the two of you in a short period of time, because conversation is intense, her attention, and her eyes are so deeply focused on you.

Here is a woman who may look like a dream come true. She not only seems to make you the center of her attention, but she even craves listening to your opinions, thoughts and ideas. It will seem like you have really found your heart's desire.

Like many things that seems too good to be true, this is. This is borderline personality disorder.

It will all seem so real because it is real in her mind. But what is in her mind it is not what you perceive to be happening.

Sky and Chris Hughes said Alexander and they thought when they met Arias that she was the perfect girl for Travis. She was a nice sweet shy girl and then they started noticing she was clingy and wouldn't leave him alone. She felt like she was Cinderella at the ball when the Prince asked her to the dance and Sky loaned her a dress. She told Sky shortly after she met him that she had a vision she was going to marry Travis and have his babies.

Love: The Clinger Phase

Once she has successfully candied her hook with your adoration, she will weld it into place by “reeling in” your attention and concern. Her intense interest in you will subtly transform over time. She still appears to be interested in you, but no longer in what you are interested in. Her interest becomes your exclusive interest in her. This is when you start to notice “something”. Your thoughts, feelings and ideas fascinate her, but more so when they focus on her. You can tell when this happens because you can feel her "perk-up" emotionally whenever your attention focuses upon her feelings and issues. Those moments can emotionally hook your compassion more deeply into her, because that is when she will treat you well - tenderly.

She is depressed or anxious, detached and indifferent or vulnerable and hypersensitive. She can swing from elated agitation to mournful gloom at the blink of an eye. Watching the erratic changes in her moods is like tracking the needle on a Richter-scale chart at the site of an active volcano, and you never know which flick of the needle will predict the big explosion.

Sex will be incredible. She will be instinctually tuned in to reading your needs. It will seem wonderful - for a while.

The intensity of her erotic passion can sweep you away, but her motive is double-edged. One side of it comes from the instinctually built-in, turbulent emotionality of her disorder. Intensity is her trump-card.

But the other side of her is driven by an equally instinctually and concentrated need to control you. The sexual experiences, while imposing, are motivated from a desire to dominate you, not please you. Her erotic intensity will be there in a cunning way tailored so you will not readily perceive it.

“I love you” means – “I need you to love me”. “That was the best ever for me” means – tell me “it was the best ever for you”. Show me that I have you.

In one of the text messages to Jodi, Travis said he thought she loved him but he realized she wasn't interested in anything that didn't concern her. He was offended that she asked for one of his paintings right before she moved back to Yreka and he signed it for her and then she left it behind. He said he knew she did it on purpose so he couldn't give it to anyone else. That's why she killed him too. She didn’t want him anymore because he wasn’t going to marry her so she murdered him so no one else could have him. She stabbed him over and over to make him suffer so he would feel the pain she felt when he rejected her. He also complained that she was crying all the time because her feelings were hurt but she didn't care about his feelings. He told Taylor Searle he knew he shouldn't have sex with Jodi because of his LDS beliefs but he couldn't resist her.

Love: The Hater Phase

Once a Borderline Controller has succeeded and is in control, the Hater appears. This hateful part of her may have emerged before, but you probably will not see it in full, acidic bloom until she feels she has achieved a firm hold on your conscience and compassion. But when that part makes its first appearance, rage is how it breaks into your life.

What gives this rage its characteristically borderline flavor is that it is very difficult for someone witnessing it to know what triggered it in reality. But that is its primary identifying clue: the actual rage-trigger is difficult for you to see. But in the Borderline's mind it always seems to be very clear. To her, there is always a cause. And the cause is always you. Whether it is the tone of your voice, how you think, how you feel, dress, move or breathe - or "the way you're looking at me," - she will always justify her rage by blaming you for "having to hurt her."

Rage reactions are also unpredictable and unexpected. They happen when you least expect it. And they can become extremely dangerous. It all serves to break you down over time. Your self esteem melts away. You change and alter your behavior in hopes of returning to the “Clinger Stage”. And periodically you will, but only to cycle back to the hater when you least expect it, possibly on her birthday, or your anniversary.

This is Jodi Arias all right. The hater came out when she kicked her mother, kicked doors and punched holes in walls, slashed the tires of Travis and Lisa twice, sent the threatening email to Lisa and stabbed Travis to death in his shower after having sex with him.

http://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a101.htm

I find it interesting that "rage" comes out in someone with BPD.

Arias may have been suffering from rage against Travis for a while BUT in this so-called rage, she was still able to be calculating and methodical in her planning and execution of Travis.
This crime did not happen overnight.
She took her time and went through the motions without a blink of an eye.
She knew what she was going to do and knew it was wrong by the extensive cover-up that followed the slaughter.

It is interesting to research the mind and how it works. I do not dispute that.

But none of this is any justification for what she did and has been convicted of doing.
She may have issues with relationships and with feelings of being abandoned, etc., etc., but many people suffer with issues such as these and do not murder someone. They cope the BEST way that they can.

I still contend that this mental illness defense in this case is a sham and a fake defense.

---

http://www.examiner.com/article/jodi-arias-trial-dr-demarte-reveals-the-truth-about-killer-jodi-arias

check it out