Crime & Trial Discussion Forums

(02-20-2015, 09:12 PM)Lunarscope Wrote: [ -> ]I'm confused if her parents were told to leave the courtroom or if their were further discussions still sealed!

Arias family was booted along with the public and media. Only the Alexander family was allowed to hear Arias testimony to this jury.

According to the just released transcripts, Wilmott says that Arias is okay with her family being in the courtroom. But after the media and public are thrown out, Nurmi insists that Arias wants her family removed also.

Arias insisted her family be thrown out because she didn't want them to hear the new lies she had fabricated about them, that her mother and father used drugs and that they beat her worse than she testified in the first trial.

There were many "secret meetings" between the attorneys, Arias and the Alexander family and the jury in chambers during both the murder trial and this retrial. This is the first time we have gotten a transcript on a meeting held in chambers.

What we know from the just released transcripts is that Arias did not want the media or public to know she was testifying or what she said even after the sentencing. She said she feared she would get hate mail and people might come after her in Estrella or in Perryville.

We also know that Martinez argued against Aria testifying in secret stating that she didn't meet the burden of the law in arguing that she was nervous and worrying about what might happen in the future, that it would cause a precedent for other defendants who would say they were too nervous to testify in public and it would backfire on them and he was right. The Superior Court of Appeals and Supreme Court agreed with the media and Martinez that Arias did not have the right to testify without the media and public hearing what she had to say.

(02-20-2015, 08:54 PM)Observer Wrote: [ -> ]Here is a better link where all the pages are there and in order.
https://juror13lw.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/jodis-sealed-hearing-oct-30-2014.pdf

I just read this and thanks, guys, for posting this. I can't read it at Beth's site because those things just don't download all the way for some reason, making me think I am seriously wasting $6 a month because there isn't much there for me. I rarely even look at her site anymore because it simply isn't interesting. At all.

I don't know law, of course, but this particular hearing and ruling ..... what can I say? It is so strange and pathetic and the defense and Arias were of course just catered to. Won't we all be glad when this is at some point over and done with? Seriously. The time and money and lives (I speak of the victim's family) - this whole thing is beyond ridiculous. I don't even know what to think. This has just been playtime for Arias and her crew and almost every time, whatever they say and ask for is granted. I bet playtime is just getting started since the defense is supposedly coming to an end.

I am now wondering if Arias will give her speech to the jury. I was so surprised that she didn't testify other than the secret thing.

I look at it differently than you do, Duluth.

I was thrilled to see that Jodi Arias didn't get her way. She didn't want us to ever read, tweet or discuss the pathetic lies she used to manipulate the judge to testify in secret and to try to manipulate the new jury. Here we are doing just that.

Every time Jodi Arias tries to manipulate Flores, Martinez, the judge, the jury, the public and the media, she gets slapped down.

Flores saw right through her pathetic lies and slapped the cuffs on her and threw her in jail.

Martinez made a fool of her on the stand by pointing out every lie she told from the beginning and ordering her to reenact the position Alexander was in when she claimed he "tackled her like a linebacker." She looked like the flying nun.

The judge has denied every motion for mistrial due to prosecutorial misconduct.

The last jury didn't believe Arias lies of self defense and found her guilty of first degree premeditated/felony murder with extreme cruelty.

Yes, the judge gave in to Arias manipulation and allowed her to testify in secret for a few hours over two days. But the Superior Court of Appeals and the Supreme Court put a stop to that and now every lie Arias uttered in the "secret meeting" in chambers and to the jury in secret has been released to the public.

And the media and public are reading every lie she uttered, broadcasting it, tweeting and blogging about it, which is what she didn't want.

Arias can throw as many temper tantrums as she wants and she is going to lose because she is trying to circumvent Lady Justice and Lady Justice is much stronger, smarter and wiser than Arias.

I'm sure Einstein Arias thinks an appellate court is going to throw out a death sentence because her appellate attorney is going to sing the same old tired tune Nurmi and Wilmott sang that the mentally ill defendant was not able to complete her testimony because she was nervous and intimidated because of Mad Dog Martinez and the Mean Old Media Hounds and Social Media Meanies and the Persecuting Public saying bad things about her and sending her Poisonous Postcards and the Prosecutor bullied and persecuted her and intimidated her witnesses and they were scared to testify and Flores deleted porn with a flick of his pen and Martinez called her psychologist a "hired gun" and said he "smeared" her "abuser." Therefore, she should walk free.

It won't happen. The cold blooded murderer will die in Perryville either with a needle in her arm or of natural causes. The temperatures get up to 125 degrees in the desert and there is no air conditioning. If that doesn't kill her, the bad diet, no exercise and solitary confinement with no one to manipulate and worship her, she won't last long. I imagine that scorpions, poisonous desert spiders and other insects, which can crawl through tiny cracks may even be crawling in her cell.

Life is tough and hard in the desert and Perryville Prison.

Given what she did say in her short testimony AND the reaction from the media and public that she was the secret witness, I am not the least surprised that she did not get back up on the stand to continue.

The outrage that ensued from every corner, especially when the transcripts of her testimony were released, made Arias realize that if she continued to testify, she would be mincemeat under cross from Martinez.

This whole issue backfired on what she felt was a foolproof plan to con the jury.
She proved once again that she is not as smart as she thinks she is.

I did find it interesting that Nurmi used "mental illness" for his argument in this issue.

I believe that is what tipped the scales in the defense's favour.

He said that because of her mental illness, Arias felt that she could not testify and do so in the manner that she wanted to get her points across as long as the media and public were there. In fact, it wasn't that they were there listening to her but rather the knowledge of what she was saying that bothered Arias so much. She believed that what she had to say was so profound that her life would be threatened even when she is transferred to Perryville.

If she refused to testify because of her feelings, Nurmi said that she would not be able to put on any kind of a mitigation case. This would not be by her own choosing, but by the fact that she is suffering from mental illness and it was out of her control. She would be punished for having a mental illness and this would end up being a good case on appeal.

Of course all of this is ludicrous and almost laughable because Arias knows exactly what she is trying to do and is in full command of her sense of right and wrong.

JSS has been doing everything in her power to have no room for future appeals in this case and I think that the reasoning that Nurmi presented, although she didn't like it and most likely agreed with Martinez's argument, she followed what she has been doing all along and closed the courtroom. I believe she knew full well that her order would be overturned and she was willing to go through the flack to assist in her strategy.

Will Arias take advantage of allocution?
I believe so.
Unfortunately for her it will be too little too late. The jury is waiting for her to take the stand and unaware that she has no plans to do so. They want to hear remorse and admission of guilt from her. This is not happening.

Waiting to convince the jury during her allocution is for Arias having the last word. They will hear from her when all threats of exposing her as a liar and a danger to society for her crime(s) are no longer there.

Giving a speech to the jury and even maybe another power point presentation expressing her gifts to society are far different from taking the stand, under oath, and accepting questioning by her own lawyers and the prosecutor. If in fact she was not a menace, was remorseful and wanted to tell her side of things, she would have taken the stand.

---

By not getting back on the stand, Aria is sending a clear message to the jury.
She is not remorseful.
She supports everything her defense has done on her behalf even to the admission of a lying affidavit and unethical experts.

Not only will no one come forward to try to save her life, she doesn't even take the stand in her own defense.
They will hear from her only during her allocution where she is in complete control of what they hear.
A precise example of her manipulative tactics.

A very clear message is what she is sending to this jury.

Never has anyone caused such damage to themselfs by burning bridges of their support base! Jodi has no supporters (outside of internet fools - who don't know her) family or friends and can't even ask for leniency without giving-up the gun!

And thanks Observer and Nurm (everyone here), I can't word' like you say and explain, plus the preciseness and relevant notations are perfection!

Lunarscope, there's all kinds of hoaxes about the gun on the Internet.

Martinez doesn't make plea deals so that is just a hoax that the state offered to take the death penalty off the table if she gave up the gun. The family wants the death penalty period. They wouldn't take any less.

Arias grandfather said he didn't know the serial numbers or brand of the gun so he couldn't identify that it was his so it would do no good to find the gun.

Arias couldn't find the gun again if she wanted to. The gun didn't kill him. The knife did.

Martinez never needed the gun to get a conviction. He had the .25 caliber shell casing and the police report that a .25 caliber gun was stolen in a suspicious burglary of Arias' grandfather's house just a week before the murder. He had the receipts and testimony of the gas cans, the rental car, the dead cell phone, the photos of Jodi Arias naked, the pictures of Alexander sitting in the shower and two minutes later lying dead on the floor with his throat slit and Jodi's pant leg and shoe, the 29 stab wounds, slit throat and bullet in the head, her palm print in his and her blood and her hair in the shower drain right below his bloated decomposing corpse.

Thanks Observer' I'm actually saying the gun, knife, bloody clothes and likely her pair of shoes hidden in the desert. Jodi has no Fog memory issues, and the evidence concealment is why this trials so long! I never heard any hoaxes (or didn't believe - if I had)  and know Martinez will stay the course of the DP trial, Its just a matter that Jodi continues the deception under insurmountable odds, when coming clean offers her the one in a Hundred Billion chance of survival! Once one in a million chance years ago, rental cars floor carmats were missing!

Well said Lunarscope and Observer!

The photo evidence can never be in dispute. They speak for themselves.
Martinez will most certainly bring them back before the jury.

Martinez and the Alexander family are never going to waiver in their course for the DP.

It is arrogance and her feelings of being so supreme NOT mental illness that also keeps Arias on her course.

She has played the victim throughout her entire life and she continues to do so when her life is a stake. She knows nothing else.
"It is not her fault don't you know", to quote Martinez.
I do not think that she ever believes that she would get the DP.
Not her - not Jodi Ann Arias!

I totally agree that if she would just come clean as you say Lunarscope, rather than continue to lie when the odds are insurmountable, she could just save her life.

I think it is hilarious that Jodi Arias says she is afraid of death threats if she testifies in the trial but not afraid of getting hate mail if she disses the prosecutor on twitter?

Jodi Arias Updates‏@JodiAnnArias Feb 19
One would think that at this point JM would NOT want #JodiArias 2 get DP bc all his BS will be greatly scrutinized.

Jodi Arias Updates @JodiAnnArias · Feb 19

All JM can do is attack Dr. G's personality. That's all he's got. New low. #JodiArias


Jodi Arias Updates @JodiAnnArias · Feb 19
JM called Geffner out on his affability. Maybe JM thinks everyone should be a**holes like him. #JodiArias

Jodi Arias Updates @JodiAnnArias · Feb 19
JM is acting like a clown. He must've minored in theater in law school.

Jodi Arias Updates @JodiAnnArias · Feb 19
JM likes to accuse Defense experts of being hired guns. But it's quite obvious who the real hired gun is.

Jodi Arias Updates @JodiAnnArias · Feb 18
JM objects to his own expert's notes coming in. What's JM trying to hide from jury? #JodiArias

(02-21-2015, 05:00 AM)Observer Wrote: [ -> ]I think it is hilarious that Jodi Arias says she is afraid of death threats if she testifies in the trial but not afraid of getting hate mail if she disses the prosecutor on twitter?

Jodi Arias Updates‏@JodiAnnArias Feb 19
One would think that at this point JM would NOT want #JodiArias 2 get DP bc all his BS will be greatly scrutinized.

Jodi Arias Updates @JodiAnnArias · Feb 19

All JM can do is attack Dr. G's personality. That's all he's got. New low. #JodiArias


Jodi Arias Updates @JodiAnnArias · Feb 19
JM called Geffner out on his affability. Maybe JM thinks everyone should be a**holes like him. #JodiArias

Jodi Arias Updates @JodiAnnArias · Feb 19
JM is acting like a clown. He must've minored in theater in law school.

Jodi Arias Updates @JodiAnnArias · Feb 19
JM likes to accuse Defense experts of being hired guns. But it's quite obvious who the real hired gun is.

Jodi Arias Updates @JodiAnnArias · Feb 18
JM objects to his own expert's notes coming in. What's JM trying to hide from jury? #JodiArias

Observer, I don't see the humor as much as it makes me border on furious with her. But that is just me...

Nurmi said that her ability to discuss mitigators 3,5,6, and 9 would be most affected if forced to speak in open court.
Are these the Defense team mitigators or does anyone know of anything specifically different? These 2 list show their mitigation in the beginning, in Nurmi's opening statements and how his list has changed or morphed to the present time. At the beginning, the list was:
1-age
2-has no prior criminal history
3- was a good friend
4- lacked support from family
5- suffered abuse & neglect as a child
6- tried to make the best of her life
7- tried to improve herself
8- is a talented artist
9- mental illness

But that seems to have changed even since the secret ‘in chamber meeting’. Here is another list that I kept from not long ago, but did not keep a link, thinking that I would not need it since these would be brought out again in the closing arguments:

1-no prior criminal history
2-was only 27 years old when she committed her offense
3- is remorseful for her conduct
4- suffered both physical and emotional abuse as a child
5- suffered both physical and emotional abuse during her relationship with Mr. Alexander
6- the abusive nature of the relationship caused Ms. Arias to suffer extreme emotional distress at the time of the incident
7- she has been diagnosed with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder
8- she has been diagnosed with she has been diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder
9- her psychological makeup impaired her ability to cope with the tumultuous relationship she had with Mr. Alexander

I’d say they are leaning towards the second list now. That's why they are trying so hard to discredit Dr. DeMarte. The problem for them, as I see it, is they can't with one hand discredit her and her diagnosis, while with the other hand, reach out and grab her diagnosis of Borderline Personality Disorder and claim that Aris has it.

I also think Geffner was trying to insert 'Bi Polar Disorder' and confuse the jury that Arias may have Bi Polar rather than 'Borderline Personality Disorder.' If they could do that successfully, they would have succeeded in discrediting Dr. DeMarte.

We can each explain why NONE of these in either list are worth the time it takes to type them! But how can Nurmi say with a straight face that for Arias NOT to testify in secret would affect any of their mitigation claims? The fact is, there is no evidence of any of them that could stand up in any other court of law.

I still think she was mainly, the majority of the time, imagining ANY relationship with him! (Or maybe HOPING, maybe even longing for or yearning for a relationship.) Even when they were supposedly ‘dating’ for that 3 or 4 months, it was LONG DISTANCE! She only moved to Mesa AFTER THAT DATING PERIOD ended, and it could not have been much actual dating, since she was a thousand miles away! Or not the kind of 'dating' that we probably see as 'real' dating. Dating is being together, doing things together, going out together, etc. It is more than texts or phone conversations or email or internet chats. Dating includes a kind of commitment to each other and with each other, because you both desire to be with each other. Isn't it?